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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,102,565 times
Reputation: 11862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
I'm not trying to get in a pissing match about Sydney. Anybody who knows about foreign cities knows that Sydney has one of the highest foreign born populations in the world.
What I'm saying has nothing to do with Sydney. I'm expanding on the fact that you seem to think Chicago is somehow cut off from the rest of the world which is extremely far from the truth. The Metro area of Chicago has over 1.7 million foreign born residents. Who knows how many others are first generation (many, many of them).
Maybe, but I've been to DC and LA, and despite being prominent they just feel really American. I guess in other measures like economics they're probably more global but subjectively they don't feel as international as Australian cities.
Maybe, but I've been to DC and LA, and despite being prominent they just feel really American. I guess in other measures like economics they're probably more global but subjectively they don't feel as international as Australian cities.
So you base a city like Chicago because you went to DC and LA?
They aren't even close to Chicago geographically firstly. LA is an urban sprawl too and hardly a *city*. If you want to feel what an actual city is like in the US, you either go to New York City or you go to Chicago, or San Francisco. You can't judge one city in America just because you went to a few others. If you didn't see anything foreign in them though, you were probably in the wrong part of town, especially in DC.
LA is nothing like Chicago. There's only a few parts of DC that are even like Chicago too. Chicago is closest to New York City in overall city-ness. Although outside the US it's more like Toronto.
Other data:
In 2009, it was estimated that over 900,000 people speak a language other than English at home in Chicago, or about 35% of the residents. It's probably safe to say the foreign born population and first generation population here is 35% and possibly even a little greater. That was 2009 though, so it might be a half percentage point higher by now. Who knows.
Again, nobody is saying that Sydney isn't diverse. Anybody who knows this stuff knows it's one of the most diverse in the world. However, when someone says that "Chicago is cut off from the rest of the world" especially when they've never even been here, it's hard to take that seriously, or when you point out that 35% of the population doesn't even speak english at home...that's not cut off from the rest of the world.
Last edited by marothisu; 01-08-2013 at 06:15 PM..
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,102,565 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
So you base a city like Chicago because you went to DC and LA?
They aren't even close to Chicago geographically firstly. LA is an urban sprawl too and hardly a *city*. If you want to feel what an actual city is like in the US, you either go to New York City or you go to Chicago, or San Francisco. You can't judge one city in America just because you went to a few others. If you didn't see anything foreign in them though, you were probably in the wrong part of town, especially in DC.
LA is nothing like Chicago. There's only a few parts of DC that are even like Chicago too. Chicago is closest to New York City in overall city-ness. Although outside the US it's more like Toronto.
Other data:
In 2009, it was estimated that over 900,000 people speak a language other than English at home in Chicago, or about 35% of the residents. It's probably safe to say the foreign born population and first generation population here is 35% and possibly even a little greater. That was 2009 though, so it might be a half percentage point higher by now. Who knows.
Again, nobody is saying that Sydney isn't diverse. Anybody who knows this stuff knows it's one of the most diverse in the world. However, when someone says that "Chicago is cut off from the rest of the world" especially when they've never even been here, it's hard to take that seriously, or when you point out that 35% of the population doesn't even speak english at home...that's not cut off from the rest of the world.
I've been to NY, of course, and it was the only city in the US that felt truly global. Many foreign tourists. In LA and DC there were a lot more American tourists.
I'd say after NY, SF should be ahead of Chicago in international-ness.
Not saying Chicago isn't international, but on a global scale I'm not sure if it gets into the top 10.
I've been to NY, of course, and it was the only city in the US that felt truly global. Many foreign tourists. In LA and DC there were a lot more American tourists.
I'd say after NY, SF should be ahead of Chicago in international-ness.
Not saying Chicago isn't international, but on a global scale I'm not sure if it gets into the top 10.
Dude you dont live in neither of these places...no wonder your post dont make sense.
I've been to NY, of course, and it was the only city in the US that felt truly global. Many foreign tourists. In LA and DC there were a lot more American tourists.
I'd say after NY, SF should be ahead of Chicago in international-ness.
Not saying Chicago isn't international, but on a global scale I'm not sure if it gets into the top 10.
NY feels more global because, well there are more foreign born people, but the city is differently laid out than Los Angeles. I grew up going to Los Angeles every year. It's a big city, but it's not a city like NYC, Chicago, or San Francisco are.
I'm not saying it's top 10. I'm saying that it IS a city that's global and international, to which you originally said "no" to. There's a lot of people here who are either foreign born, first generation, or even second generation who have still kept onto their roots. The number of foreign born are increasing every year. Chicago on the outside would appear very "American" to people, but most people who visit here only go downtown. Downtown where the central business district is, or where the night clubs are. They never really delve into the actual ethnic neighborhoods (i.e. Albany Park, which has 40 languages spoken in it)
Here you go. This is from Bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmern. Shows a few sides of Chicago you might not see if you're a typical tourist (Skip 2:47-7:40)
Maybe, but I've been to DC and LA, and despite being prominent they just feel really American. I guess in other measures like economics they're probably more global but subjectively they don't feel as international as Australian cities.
Australian cities maybe for their percentages since they're much smaller cities, but even then it's a toss-up a lot of times. What I do think works for Australia is the large number of people in Australia who travel to other countries for kicks which seems to be a lot more common overall (per capita-wise) than American cities.
I do think it doesn't make sense to not put LA isn't top ten though. LA doesn't have much in highly concentrated foreign tourist areas, but that's the layout of the city for better or worse. In terms of ethnic enclaves though, it has many and numerous that most tourists will not go to. Immigrants from Mexico are a very large component, but the sheer numbers and the high percentage means that there are still a lot of people not from Mexico who are in LA's metro. Neither LA (outside of Hollywood, Disneyland and maybe the beach) nor Chicago are big international tourist destinations, but they both have very large ethnic enclaves and international migrants. Seriously, why would you go to LA as a tourist and then go to Rowland Heights, San Gabriel, Westlake, Ktown, Carthay, etc.?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-08-2013 at 06:49 PM..
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,102,565 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Australian cities maybe for their percentages since they're much smaller cities, but even then it's a toss-up a lot of times. What I do think works for Australia is the large number of people in Australia who travel to other countries for kicks which seems to be a lot more common overall (per capita-wise) than American cities.
I do think it doesn't make sense to not put LA isn't top ten though. LA doesn't have much in highly concentrated foreign tourist areas, but that's the layout of the city for better or worse. In terms of ethnic enclaves though, it has many and numerous that most tourists will not go to. Immigrants from Mexico are a very large component, but the sheer numbers and the high percentage means that there are still a lot of people not from Mexico who are in LA's metro. Neither LA (outside of Hollywood, Disneyland and maybe the beach) nor Chicago are big international tourist destinations, but they both have very large ethnic enclaves and international migrants. Seriously, why would you go to LA as a tourist and then go to Rowland Heights, San Gabriel, Westlake, Ktown, Carthay, etc.?
LA is still one of the most visited places by overseas tourists but there are so many American tourists they don't stand out. Most tourists who come from Australia or Asia either pass through LAX or SFO. But yeah, it's pretty spread out, so you don't have the 'big city downtown' of SF, Chicago, NY, Philly. LA felt really Hispanic to me.
I can't believe how few people mention Brussels in their lists. Not only is it the de facto capital of the European Union, it hosts the headquarters of NATO, it is officially bilingual, it has over a million inhabitants, and most importantly of all: people of foreign origin make up nearly 70% of the population (of which 32% are of European origin and 36% are of non-Western origin). It should be at least in the top 3 of most international cities in the world and I could even argue for it being #1.
Also, if we are going to include conurbations, I would put the Randstad (consisting of Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht) before the Bay Area. The Randstad has a population of around 7 million, similar to the Bay Area. The foreign-born population in Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague is around 50% and for Utrecht it's around 30%. Amsterdam is the cultural capital of the Netherlands and one of the most popular tourist destinations in Europe, drawing more than 3.5 million international visitors annually (excluding the ~ 16 million day-trippers). It also hosts many large (international) corporations and banks, including the Royal Bank of Scotland, ING Group, Akzo Nobel, Heineken International and Philips. Rotterdam is a major international commercial centre with the second busiest port in the world (after Shanghai). It is also home to the Dutch half of Unilever, the third-largest consumer goods company in the world. It also has a foreign-born Muslim mayor, Ahmed Aboutaleb. The Hague is known as the "legal capital of the world", hosting over 150 international organisations including Europol, Eurojust, the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court and the International Criminal Tribunals for Rwanda and Former Yugoslavia. It also hosts the Dutch government and parliament and most foreign embassies in the Netherlands. The Hague is also home to several large international businesses, such as AEGON and Royal Dutch Shell. Utrecht is located in the centre of the Netherlands so it is a major transport hub for rail and road transport. It is also well known for its (high-ranking) institutions of higher education, including Utrecht University which is the largest University in the Netherlands. Anyway, to sum it up: Amsterdam = culture and tourism, Rotterdam = business and trade, The Hague = law and politics, Utrecht = transport and education. I'm not sure if I would put the Bay Area OR the Randstad in the top 10 of most international cities/conurbations though.
Last edited by LindavG; 01-08-2013 at 07:31 PM..
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