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Sassberto you are a card!
I do know my way around my finance/banking industry. Been there done most of it:>) When I am out of my comfort zone - I admit it in my elevator pitch. Why not? Let them explain their expertise to me. It seems to work on a sr. level. In cases like that I am a straight hunter. Let someone else skin.
In my HR days and even now - you get somewhat attached to people you cannot find a place for but like for unexplained reasons. Housecats! It is human. Be nice and they shall be nice.
Going over a number of resumes with posters by e-mail or phone. Get a grip. Do your homework. Typos are unacceptable. You are looking for a job or want to make a move. Unless you are so good in profession that the word is out - YOU are knocking on doors. So knock nicely. HR is not almighty. They are caught between hiring managers, EEOC, qualified candidates, unqualified candidates and the rest of their job. They are human too, they have issues too. So - be prepared, professional and work with them. Just because you think you can handle the job does not mean you can.
Yes - I will gladly go over resumes with y'all but will not write them for you.
How about a thread - how to prep for an interview?
And the other thing to remember to is if you call an HR company re: an ad in the paper well they don't work for you, they work for the company. If you are interested in the job send your resume. If you find out during the interview process that you aren't interested, then suspend further proceedings. Nobody is going to spend time contacting other departments to obtain more information for you about a position that they many not want you to interview for! You need to send your resume in & see if you get a call. Once you are in the interview you can see if it is a department & a culture you want to be a part of. But to expect an HR person to sit on the phone all day talking to people who don't even work for the company and who the company may not even be interested in speaking with, is a bit presumptuous. That isn't what they get paid to do & truthfully they would probably get in trouble if they did that. So that is the flip side of the coin. But I understand you are frustrated; I know how bad it is out there right now.
Well, here's my HR nightmare. I can totally understand how the average employee can feel like the company doesn't care about them if this is how HR treats people.
At the end of October, I applied for a position that I am qualified for. Two days after I sent my resume, I was asked to fill out an additional questionnaire. I did that immediately. The very next day, I was contacted by the college where this new job is and told how to arrange for several written tests that I could take here rather than drive over 500 miles to take them. I rush over and schedule the tests at my local college. So far so good. I'm excited. It's been four business days and I've got the tests scheduled (at my expense) for the earliest possible date, which was two weeks away.
I passed the tests in the middle of November and waited patiently until I got a message scheduling me for practical testing in the middle of December. The next day, they realize that they need to put the testing off until the first week in January. I drive over 500 miles, pay for a hotel room, spend the entire next day sweating bullets taking all of these practical tests. I pass the tests and then find out that something has changed and they will not be able to interview the following day as planned. They hope to be able to interview "in a few weeks".
That was 2 months ago and the HR director won't even reply to an email with a "go to hell" canned response.
When I read your posts I get this instant whiff of anger and bitterness. If you are not careful, the HR drones will smell it too. To a non-employee, HR is there for one reason: to keep the no-hires at bay and try to at least identify the potential candidates. Generally speaking if you get no traction with HR and have no contacts in the company, you aren't getting in.
Wrong. Every job I have ever had was through the manager in my area. They simply hired me and walked me down later to fill out the paperwork with HR after the fact.
When a manager wants you, they tell HR to get the paperwork ready, not the other way around.
And yes, HR drones do block many good candidates from getting in, and sometimes forward their friends. Most of them do not know what it takes to do most of the jobs, so they are not efficient at screening for competency.
Well, here's my HR nightmare. I can totally understand how the average employee can feel like the company doesn't care about them if this is how HR treats people.
At the end of October, I applied for a position that I am qualified for. Two days after I sent my resume, I was asked to fill out an additional questionnaire. I did that immediately. The very next day, I was contacted by the college where this new job is and told how to arrange for several written tests that I could take here rather than drive over 500 miles to take them. I rush over and schedule the tests at my local college. So far so good. I'm excited. It's been four business days and I've got the tests scheduled (at my expense) for the earliest possible date, which was two weeks away.
I passed the tests in the middle of November and waited patiently until I got a message scheduling me for practical testing in the middle of December. The next day, they realize that they need to put the testing off until the first week in January. I drive over 500 miles, pay for a hotel room, spend the entire next day sweating bullets taking all of these practical tests. I pass the tests and then find out that something has changed and they will not be able to interview the following day as planned. They hope to be able to interview "in a few weeks".
That was 2 months ago and the HR director won't even reply to an email with a "go to hell" canned response.
They found someone else while they were dealing with you. That is why don't ever stop negotiations with another place until you get a start date and an acceptance letter.
Even then sometimes....
Next time, ask them to pay for the gas or airline flight, hotel room, or rental car...if they say "no", then you know you're not important.
When they need someone and cannot find someone local, then they do.
And the other thing to remember to is if you call an HR company re: an ad in the paper well they don't work for you, they work for the company. If you are interested in the job send your resume. If you find out during the interview process that you aren't interested, then suspend further proceedings. Nobody is going to spend time contacting other departments to obtain more information for you about a position that they many not want you to interview for! You need to send your resume in & see if you get a call. Once you are in the interview you can see if it is a department & a culture you want to be a part of. But to expect an HR person to sit on the phone all day talking to people who don't even work for the company and who the company may not even be interested in speaking with, is a bit presumptuous. That isn't what they get paid to do & truthfully they would probably get in trouble if they did that. So that is the flip side of the coin. But I understand you are frustrated; I know how bad it is out there right now.
Most jobs are not had through the newspaper anymore. That is very old stuff. And I DO expect someone in HR to sit on the phone and give out information, if they are interested in filling a position, yes.
I have had some do this and they are working for the company in that respect. If they will not facilitate a good candidate with the hiring process, then they are a detriment to the company.
Sassberto you are a card!
I do know my way around my finance/banking industry. Been there done most of it:>) When I am out of my comfort zone - I admit it in my elevator pitch. Why not? Let them explain their expertise to me. It seems to work on a sr. level. In cases like that I am a straight hunter. Let someone else skin.
In my HR days and even now - you get somewhat attached to people you cannot find a place for but like for unexplained reasons. Housecats! It is human. Be nice and they shall be nice.
Going over a number of resumes with posters by e-mail or phone. Get a grip. Do your homework. Typos are unacceptable. You are looking for a job or want to make a move. Unless you are so good in profession that the word is out - YOU are knocking on doors. So knock nicely. HR is not almighty. They are caught between hiring managers, EEOC, qualified candidates, unqualified candidates and the rest of their job. They are human too, they have issues too. So - be prepared, professional and work with them. Just because you think you can handle the job does not mean you can.
Yes - I will gladly go over resumes with y'all but will not write them for you.
How about a thread - how to prep for an interview?
I have been told by several managers I interview well. Why? Because I know it is a two-way street. The manager needs someone to do the job. The prospective employee needs a job. Both need to communicate what they are seeking. If this isn't a mix, then you shake hands and part ways.
I had one manager tell me she liked me because I actually answered her questions, and she has had people who she practically had to tear the answers out of them. Some have hired people and they don't even show up to do the job.
It is more than just "selling yourself." It is about seeing if the needs are mutual and "what can I do for you", more than this business of hyping up resumes. Which brings to mind...I have heard of several people at different places recently being fired for misrepresenting themselves on resumes. Some of this "sell yourself" stuff is really pushing it. Confidence is one thing, but overstating oneself will look ugly later.
I go in, and say, this is what I can do. I know what I can do, and I don't have to convince myself. I am honest about what I am not an expert at, because I do not want to be hired and look like a jack*ss on the job.
I'm very direct, and I don't waste their time.
But what you don't get is if this is a large company they probably only have the information that was provided to them by the hiring manager. To clarify things to you, a candidate which may not be in any way shape or form a match to their company, they would have to interrupt the hiring manager from doing his/her job in his/her organization (which very well may be understaffed) to meet with them regarding each & every candidate's questions, who once again are likely NOT to be a match.
Given the current job market, can you imagine the time that would take in the day? A company could have to feasibly hire one person just to field questions from, likely unqualified, candidates, while they interrupted other departments to get answers. It really may not be realistic. Until the company expresses interest in your skills, you are one of many applying for a position. Like it or not, they are in the driver's seat and expecting conversations prior to that is a bit presumptuous. That is why a lot of companies explicitly state in their job ads "No phone calls please." I do agree however that an ineffectively run HR department can & does cause potentially good members of a company's staff to be lost in the shuffle and that is a loss for everyone involved including the candidate, the company, the organization in need etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebulous1
Most jobs are not had through the newspaper anymore. That is very old stuff. And I DO expect someone in HR to sit on the phone and give out information, if they are interested in filling a position, yes.
I have had some do this and they are working for the company in that respect. If they will not facilitate a good candidate with the hiring process, then they are a detriment to the company.
Don't even get me started. HR really should just stick to the benefits and harassment training. When they get involved in recruiting it is always a nightmare. My personal favorite are the recruiters with BA's in psych that are trying to screen applicants for high-end tech jobs. After awhile these guys start to think they actually know something about the tech. We have to tell them explicitly not to filter resumes, just send us everything and we'll let you know who to contact.
On this, I agree with you 100%.
Too many tests, filters, and games. Yes, it is a risk to hire someone, but it is also a risk on the part of the employee to take the job too.
I have had some HR people tell me I can't apply for this job because I don't know X. I say, X is not part of my job, it is part of this other licensure. I would put 100 million dollars on my statement, because I am right there.
They need to know what they are talking about.
The HR people I respect are the ones who do very basic screening, and then have the department manager call you for a phone interview or face-to-face.
They basically are making sure you are not an ax murderer. The manager has the job of making sure you are what you claim to be professionally.
But what you don't get is if this is a large company they probably only have the information that was provided to them by the hiring manager.
I have worked with some good recruiters. However even the best can't really tell what the difference is between a SQL DBA and a SQL Developer.
I screen every resume personally. Recruiters are really for identifying the candidate, getting the resume, and finding out if the candidate is on the market. They should be selling and representing the company. But they shouldn't be making judgements on the candidate and their "fit". That is up to the hiring manager.
The reality is that many hiring managers don't care much about the candidates and tend to overly rely on internal HR and recruiters.
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