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I think I posted this before, but here it is again:
In the 90s, a lawyer in the Bay Area got a guy who was under 18 (but looked at least 25) to go in and buy cigarettes from a number of 7-11s, grocery stores, and other convenience stores. At that time, most managers and owners only asked that we card people who looked like they were under 20 or so. After the buy was confirmed, the lawyer contacted the owners and managers and gave them a choice: pay x amount of money or get slapped with a fine.
Most people don't know or understand how strict the laws are selling to underaged. At 7-11s, in California, the first time both the store and the clerk get a huge fine. On the second offense, the franchise owner gets their liquor license yanked, which is equivalent to going out of business. If you have a third offense, Southland Corp takes back their store.
Since many stores already had a first offense, the owners really didn't have any choice but to pay the lawyer. They got together and did a lawsuit of their own against him, but the judge dismissed it and said the lawyer had a right to do what he did. After that the word was out: card EVERYONE, bar none. So yes, you could look like you were 90 years old and wobbling on your cane, but if you wanted alcohol or tobacco, you got carded.
The owner I worked for said if people didn't want to show their ID, too bad for them. Customers might get mad, but it was cheaper than losing your business and your livlihood.
I was really uncomfortable when I had to ask someone obviously over 60 for their ID but at the same time, I sure understood the reason for it. And if you asked everyone, you didn't have those insane arguments with the customer about "Why are you carding me? Why didn't you card the guy in front of me? He looks younger than I do..." and so on and so on. Yes, that happened. All. The. Time. Especially when it came to selling booze. So I was happy to have a hard and fast rule about just carding everyone.
I think I'm just bitter about how the wolf-pack of kids stood outside the store for like an hour until they found a willing "of-age" guy to buy it for them. Of course he denied denied denied, but kids being kids, they just had to let it be known they "got me" by walking back in front of the store and flashing the freshly purchased cigs at me through the window. Got me madder than all get-out.
The guy thought he was going to intimidate me with his attitude, but every single time past that, I looked out the window to see if I saw kids. He even sent his girl in once, to trip out on me. I was more than happy to explain the law, and what I believe (and probably was on video) that he did.
I noticed the car switching 7-11s to purchase cigs at after this, drove past ours almost exactly 12:30PM each night. I left the company of my own accord. Good riddance.
Now, its the same. Exact. Thing. New convenience store. Same dilemma.
I honestly just don't ask those where it isn't even a question. All the undercover narcs doing stings are looking for the sale after the ask, and "I don't have it on me," they are somewhat obvious.. if they are enforcing the law, then they have to be younger than they look.. they can't enforce the store policy...
I've also revolted bad managers, and I'll NEVER be the one to l to an underage. There are too many tells, including smarmy attitudes.
I was really uncomfortable when I had to ask someone obviously over 60 for their ID but at the same time, I sure understood the reason for it. And if you asked everyone, you didn't have those insane arguments with the customer about "Why are you carding me? Why didn't you card the guy in front of me? He looks younger than I do..." and so on and so on. Yes, that happened. All. The. Time. Especially when it came to selling booze. So I was happy to have a hard and fast rule about just carding everyone.
This was a statement I could have made. And I do agree. I do.
The thing that got me was more or less the general glaring from people, balanced with how people of that type of attitude generally will not appreciate anything you do. The attitude problem is real. I quickly realized that, in asking EVERYONE for ID, you're inevitably inviting your head to get bit off.. You're also pushing away the customers that aren't blessed with the gift of youth. Now, would a "complaint" from a jerk fly? Having worked retail.. I can tell you, YES. They do not shut up until they get what they want.
It also didn't help that the manager themself 1. Does not ask consistently, and 2. Tells you the righteous "Card everyone! I don't care if they walk in with a cane. Will they pay your paycheck?" speech on a Friday night, for the bew guy.. then, in the face of a glaring, mean customer just LOOKING to be negative - some people only operate on being negative, negative, negativity, folks, believe it - say, "If they look of-age, obviously, then there is no need to card, its only if they look under (27/40/30/pick and make up a number)" - OK well, you just destroyed all credibility and showed yourself to be a bad as well as jerk manager? See what I'm saying? I transferred from your store ASAP... *********, dude.
That is why I now use the inconsistent, apply based on looks rule.. and if someone seems indignant, yes, I do ask the customer after them, they really think they can cause trouble.
But, 80% of the time, when Faculty comes in, I ask.
And if a police officer is present, yes, I am heard asking.
Otherwise? (And you don't look like Doogie Howser?) No.
So, I'm in a convenient store setting up the lottery terminal, the cashier is a male, late teens, early 20s at best.
In walks a juvenile that would give a man pause about the 20 years that would await him- this chick was hot.
She asks for one of those cheapo Owl cigars. I nearly coughed out "check ID", but I didn't and he didn't card her. She leaves and the ALE agent comes in immediately after. BUSTED! Selling tobacco product to a 16 yr old.
I don't know the end result as I finished my work and left.
Moral of the story: Check IDs, better to **** them off than be unemployed.
That is why I now use the inconsistent, apply based on looks rule.. and if someone seems indignant, yes, I do ask the customer after them, they really think they can cause trouble.
Knock it off. If your company wants you to card every single person coming through your line then do it. It's no skin off your nose and they aren't going to appreciate that sale you made when you violated their policy anyway. Not to mention you are making it harder on your co-workers who actually follow the rules. They are getting more grief from customers because of the inconsistency YOU show too. Have enough of a backbone to do what you're supposed to do even if it is sometimes inconvenient or unpleasant.
This was a statement I could have made. And I do agree. I do.
The thing that got me was more or less the general glaring from people, balanced with how people of that type of attitude generally will not appreciate anything you do. The attitude problem is real. I quickly realized that, in asking EVERYONE for ID, you're inevitably inviting your head to get bit off.. You're also pushing away the customers that aren't blessed with the gift of youth. Now, would a "complaint" from a jerk fly? Having worked retail.. I can tell you, YES. They do not shut up until they get what they want.
It also didn't help that the manager themself 1. Does not ask consistently, and 2. Tells you the righteous "Card everyone! I don't care if they walk in with a cane. Will they pay your paycheck?" speech on a Friday night, for the bew guy.. then, in the face of a glaring, mean customer just LOOKING to be negative - some people only operate on being negative, negative, negativity, folks, believe it - say, "If they look of-age, obviously, then there is no need to card, its only if they look under (27/40/30/pick and make up a number)" - OK well, you just destroyed all credibility and showed yourself to be a bad as well as jerk manager? See what I'm saying? I transferred from your store ASAP... *********, dude.
That is why I now use the inconsistent, apply based on looks rule.. and if someone seems indignant, yes, I do ask the customer after them, they really think they can cause trouble.
But, 80% of the time, when Faculty comes in, I ask.
And if a police officer is present, yes, I am heard asking.
Otherwise? (And you don't look like Doogie Howser?) No.
Well, I worked grave for 3 or 4 years (can't really remember now) and I don't think a night went by when I wasn't called a b**ch at least once. Usually more often. In fact, once I left and started working at Kinko's, I realized I hadn't been called a b**ch for two whole weeks!
You're right though, they want what they want and they'll do everything short of robbing a bank to get it. I figured I was doing a public service, though: I was telling these people "no" for the first time in their lives and I thought that would help them to become better customers the next time they heard that word. Man, some of those people were hard to train though. LMAO I had one go on for almost half an hour telling me that because she lived in Nevada, she could buy alcohol at under 21 in California. "But it's legal in Nevada!" "This isn't Nevada." "I don't understand. It's legal.....". Rinse, repeat for 30 minutes.
The tobacco wasn't that big of a deal. The alcohol was far worse. If several people came in together and one was buying alcohol, I had to card them all. If someone came in and was refused, and then someone else came in for him, that person was refused as well. If someone looked unsteady on his feet, he was refused. If he looked unsteady on his feet, didn't get alcohol, and then got in his car and took off, I called the cops on them. And yes, I saw perfectly sober people get in the car and let the drunk guy drive. Unreal. Yeah, it sounds like I was a hardbutt, but I had some good reasons.
The first time I let someone I thought was drunk drive away without calling cops on her, I heard later she was in an accident less than half an hour later. I'm not going to have someone's death on my conscience if I can help it. Not hers as much as anyone she might kill in an accident (you know how the drunks always survive).
I also see no reason why I should have to pay a fine which was almost larger than what I made in a month just because someone needed their booze. You'd be amazed at how many people gave up and walked away when I asked them for a $500 retainer for the fine in case I was caught. If they don't want to pay it, why should I?
And I still remember the truck driver watching me turn down a guy who wanted to buy beer for his drunk friend, whom I had already turned down. The truck driver couldn't understand why I did that. The next week he came in and apologized. It turns out he got to talking to a cop when he left and found out the cop was waiting for that second guy to come out and give the beer to his drunk friend. That didn't happen because I didn't sell the friend the beer.
Then we had our shoppers who would stake out the store and watch to see if we asked for ID. And reported on us if we didn't.
Fortunately, I had a manager who made the rules, followed them herself, and backed us all up. The cops? Meh - I don't know if they appreciated all the extra paperwork we gave them. LOL And then there was the lady with the $10,000 DUI warrant on her. Apparently she didn't want to walk, weaving or not, anywhere. So the cop had to carry her to the patrol car and carry her into the station. I wasn't too popular for calling that one in. But seriously, getting that one off the road was a good thing and they knew it. She took off in her car as I was calling and was going 80 through a residential area before the cops could stop her.
So yeah, when you see stuff like that, on a freaking every night basis, you end up being a real stickler for asking for ID. Bad enough sometimes the adults can legally buy it, let alone the kids.
Last edited by rodentraiser; 02-12-2017 at 11:31 PM..
It seems that many, or even most of the comments here are misinterpreting laws banning alcohol sales to those under 21. While there may be some local laws requiring the presentation of ID I can find no federal or state law that specifically requires any type of ID but puts the onus of assuring the purchaser is at least 21 on the seller.
It appears that any specific method of assuring that age is at the discretion of the seller, but some states, such as Massachusetts will absolve the seller of liability if certain forms of ID are used.
The OP needs to get information from his employer exactly what their policy is. Blanket requirements of employers to check ID for all customers is simply a ridiculous attempt to make the process idiot proof that not only insults the intelligence of the customer but also many employees.
It seems that many, or even most of the comments here are misinterpreting laws banning alcohol sales to those under 21. While there may be some local laws requiring the presentation of ID I can find no federal or state law that specifically requires any type of ID but puts the onus of assuring the purchaser is at least 21 on the seller.
It appears that any specific method of assuring that age is at the discretion of the seller, but some states, such as Massachusetts will absolve the seller of liability if certain forms of ID are used.
The OP needs to get information from his employer exactly what their policy is. Blanket requirements of employers to check ID for all customers is simply a ridiculous attempt to make the process idiot proof that not only insults the intelligence of the customer but also many employees.
Anyway, either the corporate policy is to card everyone or they got busted and agreed to a consent decree which means that they have to card everyone to lessen the penalty.
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