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I might have just missed it, it would have been a close call. I don't remember getting a frost this earlier, though obviously it can happen. wavenhunter's map is mean frost dates, a frost can happen before. Coastal areas from Boston southward would probably not have gotten a frost, and I suspect that is wavehunter is thinking of.
I'm amused wavehunter never goes north of where he lives but travels south very often while I'm the opposite; I don't go much further south than New York City maybe occasionally into New Jersey or Philly while go northward regularly.
I'll be heading north near the MA border tomorrow, close to my favorite spot of whats called the "icebox" of CT. There's something about travelling north that makes me feel at peace where as travelling south feels extremely stressful. Maybe its the thought I'm getting near the EQ. lmao
Yes, that is the original/historical group of New England states.
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Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus
Typical New England climate would be in reference to that region, with the exception of the southern coastal strip and interior Maine. If you take that region and put an equivalent cold snap, there will be prevailing frost or freeze in every part of New England with the exception of the southern coast (Boston to NYC). It's small enough of an area to safely say that New England as a whole would be frosty.
That was my point - even a 15 F below normal low temp (what you mentioned back in reference to the departures in the Midwest)…would NOT produce a frost across most of southern Connecticut/Rhode island/and the Cape and Islands based on average mean lows in those areas for that date (or any date in Septemberfor that matter)…let alone nearby Long Island and much of New Jersey. In the length of the record (1948 to 2010 – 60 years) there is NO known record of frost at NWS Bridgeport (CT), Providence (RI), or NYC (Central Park). Also, as I mentioned, cold air masses genetically will never reach the East Coast (south of Boston) with the same strength they ever would the Midwest.
As far as a “small enough area” I think you might have that backwards: The whole of Maine, VT, NH, and western MA, and even the lower Hudson Valley might have more land area – but they have a TINY population compared to the massive populated area from Boston southeastward through southern Connecticut to NYC. About 75% of the people (in terms of numbers) would see no frost in an event like that. If there is a frost up in some forest in Vermont or Maine with no people, who really does it affect – lol?
I'm amused wavehunter never goes north of where he lives but travels south very often while I'm the opposite; I don't go much further south than New York City maybe occasionally into New Jersey or Philly while go northward regularly.
Yes, although I do travel to the Mts up north once in a while, in general we are opposites in that regard…you relish those cold northern areas (upper New England/Canada) and I relish the warm, sunny southerly areas – lol.
While Cam will be up along the MA border this weekend…I’m planning a weekend at Cape May, NJ beach. If fact, for me, that is one of the fun parts of living along the East Coast - moving with the seasons: In late spring/summer in the Tri-State area...by mid October a few weekends to Baltimore or VA Beach….in November maybe Myrtle Beach or Charleston?Savannah….and then by late Dec I’ll usually be here (Florida):
How often do we get lows at 10pm instead of 1-6am? Still clear above so lets see how low we go.
Well, there have been lows in the middle of the day before, quite a few times actually, not as uncommon as one would think. However, if it's a clear and sunny day then yes it is pretty unusual to have a low at 10 PM.
Great week coming up weather wise, highs 65 to 70, mostly sunny, and lows 45 to 52. Almost perfect fall weather in my opinion.
As far as a “small enough area” I think you might have that backwards: The whole of Maine, VT, NH, and western MA, and even the lower Hudson Valley might have more land area – but they have a TINY population compared to the massive populated area from Boston southeastward through southern Connecticut to NYC. About 75% of the people (in terms of numbers) would see no frost in an event like that. If there is a frost up in some forest in Vermont or Maine with no people, who really does it affect – lol?
The areas you mentioned (ME/VT/NH, etc.) comprise the vast majority of the area of New England. If most of the people happen to live in a small strip that isn't representative of New England as a whole, who cares? I don't care how many people there are; they shouldn't be trotted out as a representative for the entire region, when they all live in a very atypical area geographically speaking.
I consider only land area in my assessments, and I prefer to assess the actual physical/geographic region. Put another way, I act like someone that is observing a given region with all the people removed, so that the actual, "natural", physical nature of the region as a whole can come into play. You do it differently, and I'm not saying it's wrong to approach it from a population perspective, but I refer to the physical region, not the population.
There is also a hint in my grammar. "New England" itself refers to the physical hunk of rock, water, and concrete that comprises the geographic region. When I say "most of New England" I mean it in that sense. If I wanted to refer to the people I would have said "most New Englanders". The people and the land they walk on are two different sets of objects. Using the grammar like they are one and the same just comes off as weird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007
Yes, although I do travel to the Mts up north once in a while, in general we are opposites in that regard…you relish those cold northern areas (upper New England/Canada) and I relish the warm, sunny southerly areas – lol.
You two make an interesting pair (you and Nei).
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I love I-95
I-95 goes through some diverse terrain, though I'll say that I think I-15 offers superior diversity and landscapes. I'd like I-95 better if it extended up through the Confederation Bridge to Prince Edward Island. What a drive that would be - Miami to Prince Edward Island (or the other way around if you like heat ).
I'd like I-95 better if it extended up through the Confederation Bridge to Prince Edward Island. What a drive that would be - Miami to Prince Edward Island (or the other way around if you like heat ).
I thought I read (or saw on TV) that there is a new (or maybe just bigger/better) bridge connecting Prince Edward Island to New Brunswick? Years ago, I had this idea to see how far north I could drive up the Atlantic coast of Canada. I've been to Montreal/Quebec/Sherbooke - but never north of that.
If this is true, than one can drive from PEI south to Miami these days.
As far as a “small enough area” I think you might have that backwards: The whole of Maine, VT, NH, and western MA, and even the lower Hudson Valley might have more land area – but they have a TINY population compared to the massive populated area from Boston southeastward through southern Connecticut to NYC. About 75% of the people (in terms of numbers) would see no frost in an event like that. If there is a frost up in some forest in Vermont or Maine with no people, who really does it affect – lol?
Going a little off topic but this subject is too local for me to avoid.
75% is an exageration. True, the Northern New England states hold a little less than 25% of the population but that's still 3.27 million people, hardly empty forest. Western MA has around 1 million, depending on where you set the boundaries (we exist! even if the rest of the state forgets us) While Boston is assurdedly frost-free, go a short distance inland and it is not. Bedford, MA 15 miles west of the center of Boston has a 20% chance of recording 32°F or below before October 1st. So, a sizeable portion of the Boston metro is capable of getting a September frost — the maritime moderating influences weakens quickly compared to further south. Oddly, Worcester hasn't recorded a September frost, so it must be partially due to local geography. But adding in parts of Massachusetts, and northern CT, my guess is it could be closer to 35-40%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus
I consider only land area in my assessments, and I prefer to assess the actual physical/geographic region. Put another way, I act like someone that is observing a given region with all the people removed, so that the actual, "natural", physical nature of the region as a whole can come into play.
The boundaries of New England are determined by political state borders. There's little physical reason why they are where they are, though the Vermont border is partially on Lake Champlain and parts of Massachusetts / Conneticut border follow a small mountain range.
More heavy rain today, rain all day, virtually raining non-stop for 24 hours. Flood Warnings issued. I feel sorry for the commuters going home tonight.
Met Office now say the rain will last until 7am tomorrow.
One of the wettest periods I can ever recall.
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There's something about travelling north that makes me feel at peace where as travelling south feels extremely stressful. Maybe its the thought I'm getting near the EQ. lmao
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