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D.C. is the 4th largest city in the U.S. when doing an apples/apples comparison using combined statistical area (CSA) population numbers. D.C's population is between that of Chicago and Boston:
New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA: 22,214,083
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA CSA: 18,081,569
Chicago-Naperville-Michigican City, IL-IN-WI CSA : 9,729,825
Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia DC-MD-VA-WV CSA : 8,718,083
... Just something to keep in mind when comparing D.C. to other cities in terms of traffic, mass transit, vibrancy, pace of life, jobs, COL, restaurants, neighborhoods, universities, etc.
I don't think it's fair to include Baltimore in those stats when no one that actually lives around here considers Baltimore part of the area. They're two distinct cities, and there is very little intermingling of the two.
D.C. is the 4th largest city in the U.S. when doing an apples/apples comparison using combined statistical area (CSA) population numbers. D.C's population is between that of Chicago and Boston:
New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA: 22,214,083
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA CSA: 18,081,569
Chicago-Naperville-Michigican City, IL-IN-WI CSA : 9,729,825
Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia DC-MD-VA-WV CSA : 8,718,083
... Just something to keep in mind when comparing D.C. to other cities in terms of traffic, mass transit, vibrancy, pace of life, jobs, COL, restaurants, neighborhoods, universities, etc.
Why would information on CSAs assist in a comparison of DC to other cities, particularly when DC itself accounts for less than 10% of a CSA's population? It may tell an advertiser that this area is a big media market, but not how many jobs or good restaurants are in DC.
Thank you, Jeb, for once again pointing out how many more people live in the suburbs here in relation to our small central city. I do enjoy your passive-aggressive nature.
I agree, though, that it's irrelevant to draw a random circle from Baltimore to West Virginia and then tell people that we line up right behind NY, LA, and Chicago. Frankly, I don't think that's ever going to work in our favor considering how much more those metro areas offer in terms of culture and such. The great selling point of DC is that you get the urban amenities of much larger cities (and, unfortunately, the cost) on a scale that is a lot less intense and a lot more enjoyable.
Re Baltimore, a lot of people who can't afford DC have moved to Baltimore and commute so I'm not sure it's as separate an entity as Gustav suggests - I always think of Baltimore and DC as being similar to the relationship of Oakland and San Fran, though a little further away.
Anyway, you and I value different things in a place to live, BigCityDreamer. You seem to really dig on the "bigger is better" worldview and the fact that 9 people on the Supreme Court make decisions behind closed doors in a building here. I guess I enjoy a great neighborhood more than great political power or size.
Thank you, Jeb, for once again pointing out how many more people live in the suburbs here in relation to our small central city. I do enjoy your passive-aggressive nature.
I agree, though, that it's irrelevant to draw a random circle from Baltimore to West Virginia and then tell people that we line up right behind NY, LA, and Chicago. Frankly, I don't think that's ever going to work in our favor considering how much more those metro areas offer in terms of culture and such. The great selling point of DC is that you get the urban amenities of much larger cities (and, unfortunately, the cost) on a scale that is a lot less intense and a lot more enjoyable.
Re Baltimore, a lot of people who can't afford DC have moved to Baltimore and commute so I'm not sure it's as separate an entity as Gustav suggests - I always think of Baltimore and DC as being similar to the relationship of Oakland and San Fran, though a little further away.
Anyway, you and I value different things in a place to live, BigCityDreamer. You seem to really dig on the "bigger is better" worldview and the fact that 9 people on the Supreme Court make decisions behind closed doors in a building here. I guess I enjoy a great neighborhood more than great political power or size.
It's definitely not fair to include Baltimore in the CSA. A lot of people who can't afford NYC move to Philly but that's its own area. Then you get to the point where Baltimore's MSA is part of DC, Havre de Grace, Aberdeen and Bel Air cannot in any way be considered suburbs of DC.
CSAs are defined by commuting patterns. That's why the Baltimore area and DC area are in the same CSA. Howard County, for example, functions as a bedroom community for both the Baltimore and DC areas even though it's in the Baltimore metro area. Plus, there are cities that are in the DC metro area, such as Frederick, Maryland and Fredericksburg, Virginia, that are farther from DC than Baltimore is. This is why CSAs are really the only way to do an apples/apples comparison with other urban conglomerations in the U.S. DC/Baltimore is really a double-metropolis like San Francisco/San Jose.
But if you think DC and Baltimore are too separate, then consider Princeton, New Jersey and New Haven, Connecticut. They are 130 miles apart and have nothing to do with each other. Yet they are both within the New York City CSA.
It's definitely not fair to include Baltimore in the CSA. A lot of people who can't afford NYC move to Philly but that's its own area. Then you get to the point where Baltimore's MSA is part of DC, Havre de Grace, Aberdeen and Bel Air cannot in any way be considered suburbs of DC.
Fair enough. I was just saying that there's significant overlap and commuting between the two areas, but you're right that it means just pushing that line further and further out, then no one knows where to stop. Similarly, I think it's absurd to include any part of West Virginia just because some fringe people with a lot of time on their hands commute in everyday from there.
Thank you, Jeb, for once again pointing out how many more people live in the suburbs here in relation to our small central city. I do enjoy your passive-aggressive nature.
Meh - you missed the point. It's not simply that there are more people living in the suburbs than in DC, but that there are also more people living within Baltimore. As a result, information about CSAs doesn't provide a basis to make comparisons between different cities in different CSAs. BigCityDreamer clarified this in his later post, in which he noted that CSAs allow for comparisons between different "urban conglomerations," which can include multiple cities, small towns and suburbs.
As for suggesting that Baltimore is the Oakland to DC's San Francisco, I think that's a very poor analogy to suggest. At one point Baltimore was the second largest city in the United States. It still has a larger population than DC, private industry that does not exist in DC, and many cultural and educational institutions.
People commute from PA/Philly to DC too, can we include them in the metro statistics too lol.
Statistically, I'm sure those would be called 'outliers'.
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