What is the difference between the Scots and the Irish? (big house, employment)
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A high proportion of non-RC people in the North, by the way, USED to consider themselves Irish till the Provos got to work: they just didn't want to be colonials in an RC Republic.
First part is not true.
Second part is very much true.
The vast majority of the protestant community in the North class themselves either Northern Irish, Ulstermen or British. even though my family have been here since the late 1600's i don't consider myself to be ethnic Irish, I'm a mix of Scots and English blood.
As for your comment about us not wanting to be colonials in a united Ireland is very much correct. what happened to the once thriving protestant community in the south could happen to us in the North. after the south got it's independence, the protestant community were treated like 2nd class citizens, many of them left the south, that's why the protestant community is only 6% and most of these live in the 3 counties that was once part of Ulster. Cavan, monaghan and Donegal.
The good thing at the moment is that we have peace
The vast majority of the protestant community in the North class themselves either Northern Irish, Ulstermen or British. even though my family have been here since the late 1600's i don't consider myself to be ethnic Irish, I'm a mix of Scots and English blood.
As for your comment about us not wanting to be colonials in a united Ireland is very much correct. what happened to the once thriving protestant community in the south could happen to us in the North. after the south got it's independence, the protestant community were treated like 2nd class citizens, many of them left the south, that's why the protestant community is only 6% and most of these live in the 3 counties that was once part of Ulster. Cavan, monaghan and Donegal.
The good thing at the moment is that we have peace
No arguments about the latter four paras. As to 'first part is not true' and the Northern Protestants never having considered themselves Irish, what were so very many doing in the United Irishmen? (like the Brontes' uncle, by the way). My statement was based on public opinion surveys before the northern Troubles got going, however, and I haven't been able to find the detail. So it goes!
Location: Country cottage in the South East of England.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdwell
... my question is Really is there any big difference?
Well, that's a yes and no answer.
I have both Scots and Irish ancestry, on both sides of my family though mostly on the maternal side, mixed with a few others!
I would say apart from the obvious differences locality wise being the first, the gealic language is so very different in Ireland and Scotland. I have come across those who assume one will understand the other, not at all.
I learnt a little Irish in my teens, as well as Welsh ( My Grandmother was part Welsh ) but sadly not enough to get any further than asking how you are and telling you where the pen of my aunt is!
There is a similarity in their love and passion for music and their heritage, through art, music and dance. I used to be an irish step dancer MANY moons ago! Temperamentally, due to what I have mentioned, they are similar as they feel a connection.
And thankfully, they don't all hold grudges against the English for past misdemeanors, they have moved on and focus on the here and now.
I have met more than a few people in South Carolina who call themselves Scot-Irish simply because they're of Irish ancestry and Protestant (usually Baptist) but oftentimes their ancestors from Ireland were Catholic and they were forced to convert when they moved to the south. I have found many of the people in this southeastern corner of the USA to be either Irish, Scottish or Scot-Irish and they have the complexion and last names to prove it. You also have Irish-Scots like Gerard Butler and Sean Connery and Irish-English like Paul McCartney and the late John Lennon. I think it is a matter of self-indetification now more than actual blood line or reality. I am a proud Yankee American of Irish-Catholic background but DNA testing indicates that my direct line was Norman who wandered from Denmark to France to England to Ireland to the USA. On your knees, knaves1
I agree with Neverwhere____71. Let's confine our pride to dance, music and song. There's too many good things to share and too many good songs to sing to worry about wars and grievances of the past. As an American I have a strong love for the Irish and the Europeans as well as the Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders. I fel the same way about my fellow Americans. I'm not interested in the north-south conflict or the racial conflicts or what was done in 1837. Long memories makes haters out of all of us. Irish, Scot-Irish and Scottish americans seem to hang on to their old racial identities longers than, say, the Swedes, Dutch or Slovak. I think it is because of the songs, stuggles and old stories many of them grew up with. My grandmother told me the story of Finn Macool and sang to me Aileen Aroon before I enter school.
I have met more than a few people in South Carolina who call themselves Scot-Irish simply because they're of Irish ancestry and Protestant (usually Baptist) but oftentimes their ancestors from Ireland were Catholic and they were forced to convert when they moved to the south. I
They were forced to convert when they moved to the south?
sorry but that is utter tosh.
fact is that Catholic Irish immigration to the southern states was on a very small scale.
The protestant Irish in the south are direct descended from Scots and English Protestants not Catholics.
I like this topic immensely. It pertains to me in a few ways here and there. My grandparents were both from Portumna, Ireland, coming over April 30, 1919 to Philadelphia when they were both 3 and 5. (My great-grandparents met 2 weeks prior in transit holding in Wexford) My GGP, the Collins, and Bowens became friends during the process and both my GGF's eventually found work in Mt. Shasta, California as loggers. My grandparents grew up together, never dated, didn't really like each other until high school. My grandparents both joined the service at the outbreak of WWII, and were married at Pearl Harbor, HI.
Now here is the twist, my fathers parents were also in Pearl Harbor during the war. My Paternal GP was a Polish first generation born, and my paternal grandmother was 100% Samoan!
Long and short of it, mom is derivative of all Irish, while dad is Samoan-Polish. They met in Vietnam in the 60's, and the rest is history as they say! Pretty neat make up, and the learning of cultures thru out my life has been amazing.
This picture is of my Grandparents Joan Ester Collins marrying Stanley Bowen in 1941
They were forced to convert when they moved to the south?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portadown_Madman
sorry but that is utter tosh.
fact is that Catholic Irish immigration to the southern states was on a very small scale.
The protestant Irish in the south are direct descended from Scots and English Protestants not Catholics.
Portadown, What he is saying is correct historically. He is talking about the US by the way just to be clear. In places like Tennessee, there were areas where there was no Catholic Church within travelling distance, so Irish Catholics had to join a protestant church, such as Baptists. Which they would tend to do since the only other option was not go to church at all.
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