Question regarding Tucson's current highway system... (Phoenix: vehicles, land, retired)

[Ritchie_az]

Originally Posted by coatimundi

Additionally, the rumor may be the supposed Tucson bypass. ADOT introduced this maybe two years ago and it was immediately met with fervent opposition and hasn't been mentioned since. They can't really figure out a place to put it that wouldn't severely disrupt things. One plan had it going from Benson up the San Pedro Valley, then cutting west to near Florence and into I-8's beginnings. This would just make it another Phoenix freeway though and open up sprawl-friendly Pinal County's east side, which takes a little too long to reach for most Phoenix commuters right now. Additionally, putting it through the San Pedro Valley has its own issues.
You look at a map, and it's really easy to come up with bypass routes but, when you're actually on those routes, you start finding all kinds of barriers to it.

The proposed bypass route that got recommended (remember, this was the future Phoenix and Tucson bypass) was from just east of Vail to Sahuarita to west-of-the-Tucson-Mountains to the I-8 a few miles west of the I-8/I-10 interchange. In other words, it would bypass Tucson to the south and west. From the I-8 one would take Hwy 85 in Gila Bend back to the I-10 in Buckeye. That would be the bypass.

I have no idea how many years off it is, if it gets built at all.

[Marv101]

Sounds as though a new proposed freeways aren't coming anytime soon.

Having said that, how bad is rush hour traffic heading downtown or to Green Valley from Marana in the morning, or coming northbound from Grass Valley or the airport?

[tom4416]

Originally Posted by Marv101

Sounds as though a new proposed freeways aren't coming anytime soon.

Having said that, how bad is rush hour traffic heading downtown or to Green Valley from Marana in the morning, or coming northbound from Grass Valley or the airport?

Depends upon what you are used to I guess. I'm from metro DC where commuting is a nightmare regardless of the time of day. Hours to go miles was our slogan. Tucson by comparison is tame but not without issues. All of the construction on I-10 doesn't help as it creates a bottleneck at the best of times, exacerbated by rush hour traffic. However, Tucsonans think a fifteen minute delay is horrendous and by that measure, it can be "bad". However, I've been down to the airport from Marana in rush hour a couple of times and had to add maybe ten minutes to my normal off peak travel time.

The problem comes about if there is a serious incident on I-10 that closes it down. Then you've got a problem because surface streets are the only alternative and they are already busy. Get the whole southbound I-10 traffic dumping off really creates a nightmare of a rush hour. Fortunately, those types of closures are rare and generally plenty of notice via radio and TV so that if you have a job that will left you time shift, you wait it out at home.

[visitor21]

It's true that traffic in Tucson isn't as bad as LA, DC, NYC etc... Tucson eventually WILL need an east-west crosstown freeway. Think of a Los Angeles with NO freeways. All that stop and go at our main east-west arteries like Broadway and Speedway are becoming smoke stacks for air pollution. Aviation Parkway (or 'Highway') and Grant Rd (with current developments) are good candidates for future east-west crosstown freeway developments.

[Ztonyg]

From my experience the major surface streets in Tucson move traffic much more efficiently than similar surface streets in the Phoenix area. The lights seem to be synchronized better in Tucson. I don't really foresee any scenario where there would be a crosstown freeway in Tucson that would be economically feasible. However, what you're seeing now is more development in Marana, Vail, and even around I-10 and Kino Pkwy where the freeway already exists.

[swbrotha100]

Of all the freeway plans in Tucson from the 60s and 70s, about all that got build besides Aviation Highway was Kino Parkway (once planned as I-710).

The surface streets in Tucson have to have well-timed signals, because there aren't that many options. Don't hold your breath on any NEW freeway in Tucson anytime soon (if ever). Best you can hope for is I-19 and I-10 getting widened eventually as you get further away from downtown Tucson.

[azdr0710]

Originally Posted by swbrotha100

Don't hold your breath on any NEW freeway in Tucson anytime soon (if ever). Best you can hope for is I-19 and I-10 getting widened eventually as you get further away from downtown Tucson.

yes, probably true.....it just isn't a traffic crisis here yet.....surface streets will occasionally get widened, left turn lanes added, bus pullouts added, signals reconfigured......

but new limited-access freeways are many, many years away.....only when the general public perceives a crisis in traffic will opinion turn toward something different....many here still want the non-freeway lifestyle (not necessarily a bad thing) and are willing to wait a couple extra minutes at a light for it....

[Prodigal Native]

Probably the closest to a freeway Tucson will get in the next 20 years is the Houghton project that will widen it significantly and allow for a quick trip up the far East side. What you do once you are over there is anyone's guess as it seems there is minimal commercial growth compared to the NW side of town (unless you count the glut of Wal-Marts going in East of Kolb).

[visitor21]

I was alive and driving in Phoenix during the 80's. By comparison with Tucson traffic today and Phoenix during all of the 80's, IMHO Tucson is pretty much at the edge of a crisis. Tucson is small physically and if you pack that many vehicles in such small space with only a handful of main arteries today - you have a crisis waiting for ya. And yes, the traffic signals in Tucson today is more orderly as opposed to 10 years ago.

Once this 'crisis' spreads outside rush hour, I'm convinced Tucsonans would want a crosstown freeway.

[sickofIL]

We didn't have much of a problem traveling around when we visited at any time of day. Even through the construction zones. Heavy traffic in Tucson is nothing like here in Chicagoland.

What I see with highway projects is that they are usually built for the amount of people when planned. When the highway is completed it is already too small and usually there isn't any extra area for expansion figured into the original plan. So when the highway is completed it is already congested. So everybody suffers during the construction only to have a highway that is too small when completed.

Then when they try to plan for widening the expense is unrealistic because of all of the buildings/homes that would need to be purchased for the space. Case in point--the Eisenhower Expressway in Chicago. (I290) When they originally built it they had major trouble obtaining land in all of the adjoining cities. They would never get any additional land now. There are too many buildings. For as long as I can remember this expressway was a mess in the morning and evening. I remember riding with my dad in the early 60's being stuck in bumper to bumper stopped traffic going downtown. And there is nowhere to widen it. This pretty much goes for all of the expressways here around the city.

I would agree that Tucson is fine the way it is. I can only see a problem for anyone that needs to travel east to west or north to south all day long. Otherwise all you need to do is plan for delays--leave earlier.