Death Penalty (case, murders, cities, serial killer)
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I followed Troy Davis execution in Georgia yesterday.
At 6 PM yesterday Lawrence Brewer was executed in Texas. No Amnesty International there ... Democracy Now not present in Texas ... People of Faith Against the Death Penalty not there ... groups against the death penalty cannot pick and choose which death to sensationalize.
Last edited by CarolinaWoman; 09-22-2011 at 09:46 PM..
While I am not a fan of the death penalty, I wonder where those groups will be when the CT killers get their day of reckoning? No one deserves the death penalty more than those sick fiends.
As for Mr. Davis, may God have mercy on his soul. Must be tremendous mental anguish for those who stated he was the killer, than took back those statements. Really, how could any one state unequivocally that the man was guilty of a crime then, say, "oh, maybe I was wrong". Good grief, this is not a game!
Against. One innocent life taken "in the name of justice" is too many. Just ask yourself, how you'd feel if it was YOU who was innocent and on death row, or a loved one. Would you be okay with that? Besides which, if you have an innocent person in prison for the crime, that means the real criminal got away with it.
I wish the choices had been a little different. I favor the death penalty in a few, narrowly defined cases. Other than that I oppose it.
I favor it cases where the offender is a serial killer. I favor it in cases where the offender used torture or particularly cruel methods to kill his victim. I would favor it in a case where an offender used a bomb or explosives to kill more than one person. I would favor it in a case where a violent offender is sent to prison and proves by escaping or committing murder in prison that he cannot be confined safely. I might favor it in a case when the offender killed a victim to prevent him/her from testifying against him in court. I might favor it for someone who murders a child, particularly for sexual purposes. However, I think even in the last two extreme cases, I'd be inclined to favor life without parole.
I would want proof that goes considerably beyond "any reasonable doubt" to sentence any defendant to death. The Troy Davis case does not meet this standard. Mr. Davis should be serving life in prison. If he could have subsequently demonstrated he was not guilty than he should have been released altogether. I hear about a case like that and I honest-to-God wonder what people in a state like Georgia think? Maybe the idea down there is execute a man first and worry about his innocence later? Or it isn't important whether we get the right person or not just so long as we execute somebody? The victim's family in that case were really pushing for Davis's execution. I wonder how they will feel if they find out someday it was someone other than Davis that killed that man?
I followed Troy Davis execution in Georgia yesterday.
At 6 PM yesterday Lawrence Brewer was executed in Texas. No Amnesty International there ... Democracy Now not present in Texas ... People of Faith Against the Death Penalty not there ... groups against the death penalty cannot pick and choose which death to sensationalize.
I think those groups can and do pick and choose which death row inmate will provide them the most attention. Mr Davis' guilt was questioned greatly and had garned a ton of sympathy from the media be it right or wrong. It made perfect sense from a PR perspective to use Mr Davis' case as a spotlight for the anti death penalty groups.
On the other hand, Mr Brewer's guilt was not questioned and he had NO SYMPATHY what so ever from anyone other than immediate family. So it simply made no sense to use him as a poster child to abolish the death penaly because even those against the death penalty probably didn't loose much sleep over his execution. If anything, Mr Brewer is the poster child for the Death Penalty.
Yes it was ironic that they choose to picket the cop killer and african-american. Both deserved to die.
But was most ironic that the issue of the death penalty was mixed in with the issue of if Troy Davis was guilty or not. These sould have been two seperate issues, and instead you had anti-death penalty oponents confusing the case. You had people wanting to believe he was innocent simply because they were against the death penalty, not because of the very compelling facts of his guilt (and I will refer those that think he was innocent to a thread in the politics form that pretty much puts all the "he was innocent" thoughts to rest).
It's hypocrosy. Either believe in the death penalty, or not. In the U.S. you have that right for differing opinions. Petition his execution for that reason. But don't create a myth that the guy was not guilty when your real self-serving agenda is being a death penalty opponent.
There are some crimes that are so tremendously atrocious, I am 100% for it. But I think it should only be applied in those extreme cases. In a case where there is any doubt whatsoever about the defendant's guilt, any missteps in the legal process at all, it should NOT be applied.
I do fear the death penalty here and there are about 2 maybe 3 reasons.
Firstly, in terms of fearing myself being executed fear would be too strong a word. Although if someone I knew had some bad news, was too afraid to share it, and after I leave their house from a social visit on what ends up being the night they choose to commit suicide in such a way that the evidence is not 100% suggestive of no foul play, yeah, I'd be sweating bullets about it. What are the chances of that happening to me? Way less than the chances of say, cigarettes causing me to have lung cancer over time, or enjoying too much lockhart BBQ giving me colon cancer. So I'm definetly much more afraid of other things that don't actually scare me (I have a healthy diet and don't smoke often). But just like how cancer can afflict those who are the picture of health, you can be suspected of a crime unintentionally. Case in point, some morons came to tow my neighbors car away and towed mine instead. I reported it stolen and after a while with the police I started to understand that they were focusing on me and trying to determine whether I was one of the many people who has their car 'stolen' so they can pay their rent or because the car needed an expensive repair and they figured it was worth more 'dead' than alive. It felt bad to have them asking me if I made an recent big purchases. I'm not rich but I don't have my car disappeared for money. I got the car back and told them it was a mistake by the tow company. They said it was kind of weird that I didn't want to press charges. I told them I work or I don't get paid, I'm not going to take the time to nail some flunkies to the wall because they got the wrong address by one number and towed the wrong car. The whole thing sucked. If someone had been killed or is someone was missing, I'd really hate to find out how much more intense that would have been than some property being in limbo. I was the last person who saw my car before it went missing. Would you rather be the last person who saw, say, your wife missing here? Or in a non DP state? (Death Penalty)
Under the same 1st reason, I spoke to David Kaczinski once in college. He is the UnaBomber's brother. David turned in Ted K... what if he didn't? What if he never read the manifesto that Ted wrote and made the connections? David was one of the last people to see Ted. More than likely the next bomb Ted mailed after the last time David ever saw him as a free man was already built when he visited Ted at his famous shack in Montana. What if federal prosecutors tried to charge David just to shake whatever they could out of him for their investigation. He could have been tried as a co conspirator and I don't think people would have thought it was some Soviet style tactic. Dave and Ted were alike in many ways,, obviously from the same family, both Ivy League educated. I think it's highly likely to suspect that some people who are in that situation with less money, less education, can end up behind bars for years.
Another reason that the DP scares me is that if you look at statistics on murder rates, there are some NON-DP states that are better than some DP states and vice versa, but as a whole, the average DP state has more murders per capita. The problem is with showing causation. You can't use that fact alone to sway death penalty people because it could theoretically be a fluke... Also, even if you could prove that having DP results in a few extra murders per 100,000 per year,,, smoking kills 400,000 people a year and as long as the right people are making money it will stay around and be legal.
And that brings me to possible my 3rd reason (closely related to the 2nd) I fear what it says about our society when we'd rather spend buckets of money on the back end of murder, then using the same money on the front end for prevention. Many very intelligent people always rely on "Well, it's cheaper to kill them than feed them." But that's not the truth. DP and death rows cost the states which still have them tons of money for several reasons. When you have a guy on video tape shooting a clerk, for example, he's not going to get away with it. If all they are up against at trial is life in prison, not the DP, they apologize for their crimes, try to evoke sympathy, admit that it was wrong. When you put their life on trial they lash out as a defense mechanism. Now it's not "I was wrong" but rather "I was wrong to rob him, but I was just robbing him and I was scared so I was shaking and accidentally fired the gun,, then the clerk reached for his gun and I only reacted by firing again in self defense."
Since there is nothing to gain in the truth, they harass the victim's family even more with this victim blaming lie/theory of innocence. They try to argue that it was negligent homicide and armed robbery that they are guilty of, not murder1. If they could just be on trial for life in prison the chances are they would fess up and try to hope for a possibility of parole with their life sentence instead of trying to beat the wrap with a ridiculous tactic.
Now that they have a date with the needle as opposed to life as a prisoner, they appeal and move for new trials over and over even if they know it's useless because they have nothing else to do. With life they can placate themselves with some dream of freedom. Maybe society will crumble, maybe they'll get paralyzed and be released to a care facility, maybe this maybe that. If they know death is coming and on what day it will come they try to fight it further insulting everybody involved.
The system is not an accident. Watch the money. Lawyers wrote the laws, they know how to influence the people who vote on the bills and they know a one off life sentence trial won't net as much work for them as someone who has no reason not to appeal appeal appeal. Lawyers get to prosecute again, defend again, judges review it all again. You force people to fight for their lives and you pay for their appeals with tax dollars and public defender money. And for the innocent, you also give them a more finite amount of time to work with to prove their innocence (in a system where innocence is supposed to be assumed and GUILT has to be proven..)
Think of the life-term prisoners who 'killed their wife' and it turns out someone else did it. It takes 20 years to get the guy off the hook and 20 days to find the right guy even though it's 20 year later? Wow... And if you think this is just a couple of one off's.,, well it's not one off's if it's a couple,, and there are literally support groups in TX cities for exhonerated people who served decades long terms before being freed. How does a death row inmate take 30 years to get off the hook when they execute them at 15 years? Sometimes they kill them before they have a chance.
I don't think the chances of this happening are exceedingly high, but I think you can sooner be jailed for crimes you either aren't guilty of, or crimes you aren't guilty of in the exact insidious manner which the prosecutor suggests much more likely than you can, say, win the lottery, and someone wins the lottery....
Last edited by Slunkmonky; 12-26-2011 at 09:06 PM..
Reason: didn't like my ending before.
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