Does Toledo hold its own against the suburbs? (Cleveland, Green: section 8, apartment complex)

[Tobias C]

I think with progressive thinking like this, Toledos gonna have to kick it in to high gear or be left behind....

Sylvania looks to enhance its downtown area | 13abc.com (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=8167406 - broken link)


I can't tell what this will exactly look like but it's obvious that the city of Sylvania has a vision for it's future.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by Tobias C

I think with progressive thinking like this, Toledos gonna have to kick it in to high gear or be left behind....

Sylvania looks to enhance its downtown area | 13abc.com (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=8167406 - broken link)


I can't tell what this will exactly look like but it's obvious that the city of Sylvania has a vision for it's future.

Y'know, as much as I want it to be Toledo proper that leads the charge. It's still good news for the area. Hopefully Toledo can avoid being the "hole that fills the donut" like Cleveland.

[ryansmith]

You cant honestly think that Sylvania's plans can possibly compete with the marina district and casino and warehouse district. Millions and millions being or soon to be put into downtown Toledo.

Sorry in advance if I come off as caustic, but this is delusion. It reminds me of when the mayor of Perrysburg had all the news stations swarming because the mayor indicated that shortly Toledo will be the bedroom town to Perrysburg. No investment has taken place in Perrysburg, that I know of, since that bold statement.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by ryansmith

You cant honestly think that Sylvania's plans can possibly compete with the marina district and casino and warehouse district. Millions and millions being or soon to be put into downtown Toledo.

Sorry in advance if I come off as caustic, but this is delusion. It reminds me of when the mayor of Perrysburg had all the news stations swarming because the mayor indicated that shortly Toledo will be the bedroom town to Perrysburg. No investment has taken place in Perrysburg, that I know of, since that bold statement.

I posted my response before really reading that article. It doesn't sound much different than the park in uptown, so I don't think Toledo is lagging in comparison.

I don't like "developments" that try to emulate a real urban environment. Something that acts as a catalyst is fine, like 5/3 Field or potentially the park that will be in Uptown. But Sylvania's plan sounds like too much of a plan, if you get what I mean.

It's the same reason that I prefer indoor malls to say Levis Commons. If you're going to be a planned retail space, just be one, don't stalely emulate what you think a downtown should be. Heck, I even prefer Spring Meadows over Levis Commons and Fallen Timbers.

[ryansmith]

I have lived here for how many years now and I have never had a reason to go to Levis Commons. The indoor mall is always full.

The flop of the waterfront development (What was that called) that had high end stuff in a blighted downtown... is a fine example of how developments dont stand a chance if they aren't aligned with a movement. Downtown Toledo looks virtually nothing like it did when Waterside? is that what that was called? was put in. You could hear a pin drop downtown back then and now we have an arena, ball field, art galleries... etc. I am very optimistic about downtown Toledo. ...but outside of contesting a speeding ticket a few years ago... I have had absolutely no reason to go to "downtown" Sylvania... I don't see how their plans would change that.

[acealive1]

i never understood the logic behind making a multi million dollar over priced outdoor mall where it snows for 6 months of the year.


also making an arena to hold 8,000 people when u know if u build it to hold LARGE concerts you'll not only draw sell outs but multiple sell outs of one artist rather than two sell outs which equal one show in detroit.


then the arena ball team tanked.....but theres at least 15 other leagues u coulda put them in to make a profit since no one goes to hockey games and ya still blew it. it needs to change fast otherwise the new arena is gonna be in trouble.

[Tobias C]

Im not personally that excited about this Sylvania. I agree that it probably will be too much of an isolated development, probably like a miniature Levis Commons next to downtown Sylvania, as opposed to an actual continuation of the traditional downtown corridor. I hate when some people think that any kind of development in a downtown area is positive, because that throws out whatever ultimate potential a particular area had.

I hate fake downtown, pseudo-urbanist, lifestyle center/outdoor shopping malls too. I think theyre a complete insult to their host cities real downtown. I have a feeling Fallen Timbers wont last too long. It doesnt quite have the same "sense of place" that Levis Commons does. It doesnt create as urban of a vibe, and thats the whole point of an outdoor mall like these places so, I basically think its destined to fail. I hope that spirits of the dead from the Battle of Fallen Timbers haunt the place. JKJK

Oh, and I didnt mean to imply that I think Sylvania is surpassing Toledo in development progress in anyway, because thats far from the truth. I just meant that if the suburbs are making positive strides toward promoting urban life of any sort... instead of being the alternative to Toledos city life, theyll be competition.

[Tobias C]

Originally Posted by ryansmith

The flop of the waterfront development (What was that called) that had high end stuff in a blighted downtown... is a fine example of how developments dont stand a chance if they aren't aligned with a movement. Downtown Toledo looks virtually nothing like it did when Waterside? is that what that was called? was put in. You could hear a pin drop downtown back then and now we have an arena, ball field, art galleries... etc. I am very optimistic about downtown Toledo. ...but outside of contesting a speeding ticket a few years ago... I have had absolutely no reason to go to "downtown" Sylvania... I don't see how their plans would change that.

* Portside

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by Tobias C

I think Toledo is definitely on it's way to becoming more "upscale urban." We have a long, long way to go til were in the same league as the big cities, but were making strides.

The problem with "upscale urban" is that it prices everyone out except the elites. This is now happening in Pittsburgh, where properties downtown and the "upscale" core neighborhoods are not affordable for most young people.

The reason I love Toledo so much is because you can afford to live downtown or in the Old West End, two great urban neighborhoods, for $400 a month. You can't beat that!

[ryansmith]

Thanks. Portside... undoubtedly a lesson on how not to develop waterfront in the Rustbelt. I watched a show on PBS that talked about waterfront developments and cited the failed attempts in Flint, MI and Toledo as the only real failed attempts... The inuindo was that Toledo was too redneck to appreciate waterfront... which of course had me throwing a shoe at the TV. In reality it was a half baked idea to put overpriced dining targeted to the upper crust in what used to be a ghost town near what used to be low income housing. Downtown is now a completely different place and the new proposed developments should be attractive to a larger demographic.

...and just for the record... any Toledo haters out there: Spend one day in Flint and then lets see how hard you are on Toledo.

Sorry for getting off topic.

Originally Posted by Tobias C

* Portside