Better skyline Houston or Dallas? (Orange: urban area, financial, lifestyle)

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

The only big thing that Dallas may "seem" more vibrant than downtown Houston is the bright glitzy, colorful lighting they use as opposed to Houston's calmer and subtle lighting. But the pedestrian activity is really the same.

Unless you're including Uptown Dallas in your claim, then i can agree with you. But the notch can go up too when including Midtown Houston.

It has nothing to do with lighting....DtHouston is alot bigger than DtDallas...and with it still being 90% office dominated (and still adding 800 footers)shows that DtHouston will remain "pro-office"....which means office development will reamain top priority as long as the demad is there....the flip side is that all of those new shiny office buildings will die at 5....making it even harder to create a vibrant balanced mix of residential and retail that promotes pedestrian activity.
Dallas is taking a different path...since our office demand is no where near as damanding as houstons...the office product is on a smaller scale making it easier to balance out with the taller old office buildings being converted into apartments..its kinda like the polar opposite of houston...Dallas is building or converting buildings into housing in DROVES until the market warrants it focus on office again....Houston is building office buildings in DROVES until people really show intrest in living downtown...every block of pure office that they build in DtHouston is one more block that dies at 5.....It all boils down to residential....its what keeps a building alive after 5. Most of Dallas' new office will have a residential component...Tall office buildings are always good to look at...and so is a statue."Mixed-use" is the key for vibrant downtown experiences...and Dallas is well on the way to mastering that concept.

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

The only big thing that Dallas may "seem" more vibrant than downtown Houston is the bright glitzy, colorful lighting they use as opposed to Houston's calmer and subtle lighting. But the pedestrian activity is really the same.

Unless you're including Uptown Dallas in your claim, then i can agree with you. But the notch can go up too when including Midtown Houston.

Dallas begs to be noticed at night while Houston remains anonymous.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

It has nothing to do with lighting....DtHouston is alot bigger than DtDallas...and with it still being 90% office dominated (and still adding 800 footers)shows that DtHouston will remain "pro-office"....which means office development will reamain top priority as long as the demad is there....the flip side is that all of those new shiny office buildings will die at 5....making it even harder to create a vibrant balanced mix of residential and retail that promotes pedestrian activity.
Dallas is taking a different path...since our office demand is no where near as damanding as houstons...the office product is on a smaller scale making it easier to balance out with the taller old office buildings being converted into apartments..its kinda like the polar opposite of houston...Dallas is building or converting buildings into housing in DROVES until the market warrants it focus on office again....Houston is building office buildings in DROVES until people really show intrest in living downtown...every block of pure office that they build in DtHouston is one more block that dies at 5.....It all boils down to residential....its what keeps a building alive after 5. Most of Dallas' new office will have a residential component...Tall office buildings are always good to look at...and so is a statue."Mixed-use" is the key for vibrant downtown experiences...and Dallas is well on the way to mastering that concept.

Downtown Houston isn't building residential units?

City view lofts
500 Crawford
Old texaco building redevelopment plus additional new residential tower
Potential residential behind Marriott Marquis near discovery green, on the new light rail line
Sky house
Apartments next door to sky house on Main Street
Houston House redevelopment

That's well over 1000 new residences and refurbishment of hundreds more. But downtown Houston isn't focusing on residential...

[Exult.Q36]

Everyone can't live downtown. The downtown area is suppose to be inviting to all residence of the city. This goes beyond just having residence in the downtown district. What is so fun about downtown Houston and Dallas? What does it have to offer to the average residence after 5? The answer at this point is not much. It would be beneficial for both cities to add shops, restaurants, and entertainment options at the bottom of these skyscrapers.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by kdogg817

Everyone can't live downtown. The downtown area is suppose to be inviting to all residence of the city. This goes beyond just having residence in the downtown district. What is so fun about downtown Houston and Dallas. What does it have to offer to the average residence after 5. The answer at this point is not much. It would be beneficial for both cities to add shops, restaurants, and entertainment options at the bottom of these skyscrapers.

Completely agree.. Fortunately that's slowly happening...

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

Downtown Houston isn't building residential units?

City view lofts
500 Crawford
Old texaco building redevelopment with additional new residential tower
Potential residences behind the Marriott Marquis hotel on the new light rail line
Sky house
The apartments going up on main next to sky house
And renovating Houston House..

That's over 1000 new residences and refurbishment of hundreds more.. But downtown Houston is only focused on offices...

that's not enuff for big ole Dt Houston.......most of the buildings are office and adding more. Residential is an after after after thought in dthouston. Picture an eaten bowl of cereal with the milk left in the bowl. You see those 3 or 4 soggy peices of cereal that's left hugging the edge of the bowl that you left? those are residential projects in dthouston...the milk represents office development....the milk is what dies at 5...

Yes....I just ate a bowl of cereal....

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

that's not enuff for big ole Dt Houston.......most of the buildings are office and adding more. Residential is an after after after thought in dthouston. Picture an eaten bowl of cereal with the milk left in the bowl. You see those 3 or 4 soggy peices of ceral that's left hugging the edge of the bowl that you left? those are residential projects in dthouston...the milk represents office development....the milk is what dies at 5...

Yes....I just ate a bowl of cereal....

LOL. I wouldn't go so far to say its an "after after after thought", but yes office buildings are definitely the supreme king of downtown Houston, as it should be. Downtown is supposed to be the financial district, not a neighborhood. Residences downtown is just a byproduct of urbanization and people wanting to live, work, and shop within walking distance of everything. I'm glad the pendulum is finally swinging towards urbanization instead of suburbanization.

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

It has nothing to do with lighting....DtHouston is alot bigger than DtDallas...and with it still being 90% office dominated (and still adding 800 footers)shows that DtHouston will remain "pro-office"....which means office development will reamain top priority as long as the demad is there....the flip side is that all of those new shiny office buildings will die at 5....making it even harder to create a vibrant balanced mix of residential and retail that promotes pedestrian activity.
Dallas is taking a different path...since our office demand is no where near as damanding as houstons...the office product is on a smaller scale making it easier to balance out with the taller old office buildings being converted into apartments..its kinda like the polar opposite of houston...Dallas is building or converting buildings into housing in DROVES until the market warrants it focus on office again....Houston is building office buildings in DROVES until people really show intrest in living downtown...every block of pure office that they build in DtHouston is one more block that dies at 5.....It all boils down to residential....its what keeps a building alive after 5. Most of Dallas' new office will have a residential component...Tall office buildings are always good to look at...and so is a statue."Mixed-use" is the key for vibrant downtown experiences...and Dallas is well on the way to mastering that concept.

Ok not so fast boi! , The lights is actually a plus i gave. I still don't see how your office demand argument explains how that makes downtown Dallas more vibrant than Houston when both downtowns are doing the same thing. Matter fact, downtown Houston already having an established theater district, Market Street Square w/park already pushes it over the edge. Houston's East downtown sector has really taken off with new development with the Discovery Green, Phonecia Grocery store, One Park Place, and pretty soon will have the skyview apartments and all the other ones that Texas Tallest listed in his post. And i don't care whether you all want to accept it or not, Sports stadiums in downtown is a good thing and is sprinkles on a cake for vibrancy.

So your argument of the loft conversion vs. Office demand doesn't hold water. I need you and Dallaz to do a better job providing proof of how downtown Dallas is more vibrant than downtown Houston, and be sure it's not something Houston doesn't have an answer for. Last time i went downtown Dallas, there wasn't much happening until you cross over the Woodall Rogers section, then you know you're entering the uptown area. Yes the KW park area is pretty vibrant from the spillover effect from the Uptown area. But that's just one small section just like the small section in downtown around Discovery Green. Then we still have Midtown Houston and the expanding east downtown section. So i stand by my original statement, Downtown Dallas may seem more vibrant because of the lighting schemes they use, nothing more.

I agree with the poster who said it before. The topic of vibrancy was brought up by Dallasites deflecting the attention away from them losing ground on the original skyline debate. Associating skyline growth with lack of vibrancy indicates you guys are becoming desperate and just really grabbing for straws at this point.

[annie_himself]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

LOL. I wouldn't go so far to say its an "after after after thought", but yes office buildings are definitely the supreme king of downtown Houston, as it should be. Downtown is supposed to be the financial district, not a neighborhood. Residences downtown is just a byproduct of urbanization and people wanting to live, work, and shop within walking distance of everything. I'm glad the pendulum is finally swinging towards urbanization instead of suburbanization.

What on Earth are you lying about? Downtown is supposed to be a full neighborhood like they were in 1850. Residences downtown are a product of naturalization. Suburbs are a product of the freeway and car.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by annie_himself

What on Earth are you lying about? Downtown is supposed to be a full neighborhood like they were in 1850. Residences downtown are a product of naturalization. Suburbs are a product of the freeway and car.

Downtown in almost any major city is considered the central business district/financial center..
I agree, the area we consider downtown today were "neighborhoods" in 1850.. Houston was barely a city and like you said about freeways and cars, sure as heck didnt sprawl like it does today. But starting in the 1940s and 50s that pendulum shifted towards car eccentric suburban lifestyles, and the neighborhoods shifted further outward as the city grew. It hasn't been until recently that the more sustainable urbanization started happening and people wanted to live, work, and play within walking distance of each other. I'm looking forward to the neighborhoodization of downtown, but to pretend most downtowns have been neighborhoods since the 1850s is ludacris. It's a trend that's just now coming back into style.. (Fortunately)