Houston vs. Dallas (Howe, Miami: 2014, lawyers, home)

[Exult.Q36]

Economist warns Houstonians — Oil bust could happen again and have a similar ripple effect in Houston as it did in the 80's.

David Zervos, Jefferies economist, sees oil prices dropping sharply on trade and currency devaluation - Houston Business Journal

Another thing that should be realized is that the majority of Houstonians are not exactly prospering in this current energy aided economic boom. The main folks that are prospering are the oil elites. Houston touts itself on being one of the most diverse cities in America, but ignores the fact their is a growing class divide and a significant income gap between whites and minorities in the city. DFW has been attacked on numerous occasions for being white centric and segregated but if the truth be told blacks and other racial minorities have not exactly penetrated the Houston Energy sector with any major success.

Through Boom and Bust, 'Invisible Houston' Persists - The Texas Observer

[TexasTallest]

I'm not saying another bust won't happen.. But I don't see fracking drying up anytime soon...

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by kdogg817

Considering Houston main supplier in growth is the oil and gas industry this shouldn't be a surprise. Heck, they should be ahead.

Weak. So you're gonna pull that card huh??? I guess medical and energy left the building.

If oil and gas really was the only indicator, Houston should've been ahead over a decade ago.

[Metro Matt]

Neither will the ever changing energy sector that will ALWAYS be there, especially with "green" energy becoming the new thing.

Houston also has bio medical, shipping (foreign & domestic), & the aerospace industry.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by kdogg817

Economist warns Houstonians — Oil bust could happen again and have a similar ripple effect in Houston as it did in the 80's.

David Zervos, Jefferies economist, sees oil prices dropping sharply on trade and currency devaluation - Houston Business Journal

Houstons economy was 80% O&G in the 80's bust, it is now 50% or less, but even so, we all know the boom will not last forever unless Houston and other texas cities continue to diversify. Also you make the mistake of thinking that an oil bust wouldn't hit DFW and other metros in Texas as well, it would hurt us all.

Originally Posted by kdogg817

Another thing that should be realized is that the majority of Houstonians are not exactly prospering in this current energy aided economic boom. The main folks that are prospering are the oil elites. Houston touts itself on being one of the most diverse cities in America, but ignores the fact their is a growing class divide and a significant income gap between whites and minorities in the city. DFW has been attacked on numerous occasions for being white centric and segregated but if the truth be told blacks and other racial minorities have not exactly penetrated the Houston Energy sector with any major success.

Through Boom and Bust, 'Invisible Houston' Persists - The Texas Observer

Have racial minorities penetrated Silicon Valley or Silicon Hills with any major success?

[Exult.Q36]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

Weak. So you're gonna pull that card huh??? I guess medical and energy left the building.

If oil and gas really was the only indicator, Houston should've been ahead over a decade ago.

I'm really not going to get in a argument with you or any other Houston poster because I know you guys love your town and will defend it even if their are some valid points made. You and I both know this boom is directly related to the energy sector. Last I checked oil and gas was a form of energy. We all know Houston has other industries but the oil and gas industry is Houston bread and butter.

[majicdonjuan]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

Houstons economy was 80% O&G in the 80's bust, it is now 50% or less, but even so, we all know the boom will not last forever unless Houston and other texas cities continue to diversify. Also you make the mistake of thinking that an oil bust wouldn't hit DFW and other metros in Texas as well, it would hurt us all.



Have racial minorities penetrated Silicon Valley or Silicon Hills with any major success?

This is the best point made recently in this thread. I think a lot of posters discount just how much support of O&G goes on in other areas of Texas and the Gulf Coast. If O&G prices fall or there's some sort of energy bust every single economy in the state will suffer and every single region will notice. Should that happen DFW, Midland/Odessa, Corpus Christi, etc. will all see economic effects from it.

Everyone talks about the 80s oil crash like Houston was the only city affected. DFW had a steep recession during that time as well, and it's because the economies are very much tied together.

We are all rising now, and we will all fall if the bust comes. A good chunk of DFW's service industry (financial, IT, information, tech) is in support of Houston-based O&G companies.

[majicdonjuan]

Originally Posted by kdogg817

Economist warns Houstonians — Oil bust could happen again and have a similar ripple effect in Houston as it did in the 80's.

David Zervos, Jefferies economist, sees oil prices dropping sharply on trade and currency devaluation - Houston Business Journal

Another thing that should be realized is that the majority of Houstonians are not exactly prospering in this current energy aided economic boom. The main folks that are prospering are the oil elites. Houston touts itself on being one of the most diverse cities in America, but ignores the fact their is a growing class divide and a significant income gap between whites and minorities in the city. DFW has been attacked on numerous occasions for being white centric and segregated but if the truth be told blacks and other racial minorities have not exactly penetrated the Houston Energy sector with any major success.

Through Boom and Bust, 'Invisible Houston' Persists - The Texas Observer

I don't know about that - my largely black Houston-based social circle seems to be prospering. It's not just the oil elites - there's no shortage of work for doctors, nurses, lawyers, shipyard workers, business owners, blue-collar oil laborers, etc. and at rising wages.

I think the Texas Observer article you posted makes some good points, but it's from the perspective of an E-J crusader, and I'll be the first to admit that Houston's E-J record is nothing to write home about. However, he ignores literally all of the economic growth that minorities have seen in the city since the 80s when he first lived there.

Poor people don't run anything, anywhere, and Houston is no different. As far as minorities irrespective of income level, Houston has the third highest percentage of minority-owned businesses in the country (41.3%), behind the only two large regions with a proportionally higher level of minorities, Miami (53.4%) and LA (41.9%). For reference that number is 28.1% in DFW. (Where Do Minority-Owned Businesses Flourish in the U.S.? - NationalJournal.com)

Minorities in Houston are largely making their money via entrepreneurship moreso than conventional work. While I agree it would be nice if there was a higher level of minority representation in O&G, minorities are doing better in Houston than many, many other places in the country. There is a ridiculous amount of opportunity there.

[J_Treehorn]

Originally Posted by kdogg817

Economist warns Houstonians — Oil bust could happen again and have a similar ripple effect in Houston as it did in the 80's.

David Zervos, Jefferies economist, sees oil prices dropping sharply on trade and currency devaluation - Houston Business Journal

You are mixing two mutually exclusive topics in your head (and not linking them particularly well), but the first can be addressed well enough. And it's not really a "Houston vs. Dallas" issue to begin with.

You are quoting a statement, made in March during a seminar, from an economist at a minor investment bank about a scenario he foresees as faintly possible - a serious price crash based on a massive global currency devaluation and inefficient manufacturing CAPEX somehow pushing the industrial base further towards the more energy efficient developed world. FEI meetings can get mighty boring, so sometimes you need to talk about provocative, far fetched things. Don't understand it? Then you shouldn't post it.

If you had access to a Bloomberg terminal, CAPIQ, or even did a Google search a bit beyond the poorly written headlines that pop up (small hint - journalists aren't really smarter then the people they write to), you would see that the consensus oil price predictions and trading activity really don't see oil getting less than $90 a barrel. In fact, most see it at slightly over $100 by December. If you want to bet on $65 oil taking down the Houston economy, I'll gladly introduce you to oil trading and take the opposite position against you at a very low cost. There are trillions of dollars in the energy industry, and trust me, you did not uncover a hidden nugget with your article. Oil will remain expensive for the rest of your life, and Houston (and even Dallas) will benefit from that high price for the rest of your life. It's as much a "boom" for Houston as the introduction of widespread running water was a "boom" for London in the 19th century.

Income inequality is a serious topic worthy of serious discussion, so please, don't insult it by posting random left-wing newspaper articles in a Texas forum to one-up a city you don't like. And definitely brush up on your energy industry IQ if you want to comment on it with any degree of discernment.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by J_Treehorn

You are mixing two mutually exclusive topics in your head (and not linking them particularly well), but the first can be addressed well enough. And it's not really a "Houston vs. Dallas" issue to begin with.

You are quoting a statement, made in March during a seminar, from an economist at a minor investment bank about a scenario he foresees as faintly possible - a serious price crash based on a massive global currency devaluation and inefficient manufacturing CAPEX somehow pushing the industrial base further towards the more energy efficient developed world. FEI meetings can get mighty boring, so sometimes you need to talk about provocative, far fetched things. Don't understand it? Then you shouldn't post it.

If you had access to a Bloomberg terminal, CAPIQ, or even did a Google search a bit beyond the poorly written headlines that pop up (small hint - journalists aren't really smarter then the people they write to), you would see that the consensus oil price predictions and trading activity really don't see oil getting less than $90 a barrel. In fact, most see it at slightly over $100 by December. If you want to bet on $65 oil taking down the Houston economy, I'll gladly introduce you to oil trading and take the opposite position against you at a very low cost. There are trillions of dollars in the energy industry, and trust me, you did not uncover a hidden nugget with your article. Oil will remain expensive for the rest of your life, and Houston (and even Dallas) will benefit from that high price for the rest of your life. It's as much a "boom" for Houston as the introduction of widespread running water was a "boom" for London in the 19th century.

Income inequality is a serious topic worthy of serious discussion, so please, don't insult it by posting random left-wing newspaper articles in a Texas forum to one-up a city you don't like. And definitely brush up on your energy industry IQ if you want to comment on it with any degree of discernment.