Texas: A Shopping Paradise (Houston, Dallas: sale, bankruptcy, prices)

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

Because dancing water is wasteful and stupid would be the primary answer.

You must be describing that poorly, because a traffic light on top of a spot would be unnecessary - you can see if a spot is taken by looking at the car occupying it. But there are tons of lots around the US and even a few in Dallas which show available, unoccupied parking spaces on each floor.

Yeah, they have the occupied parking spot indicators at BLVD Place in Uptown Houston as well.
To say that shopping in Houston consists of only theGalleria and a bunch of bohemian strip centers is completely asinine.

[Eye of a poodle]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

Yeah, they have the occupied parking spot indicators at BLVD Place in Uptown Houston as well.
To say that shopping in Houston consists of only theGalleria and a bunch of bohemian strip centers is completely asinine.

For those outside the state wishing clarification, for the most part, the city of Dallas preserved its urban retail. The example I have been giving is the number of malls located within Dallas. Discounting the one being redeveloped in south Dallas, there are two. These are the Dallas Galleria and NorthPark Center. The remaining retail in Dallas is urban, very popular, and a large part of it upscale.

In contrast, I think the city of Houston traded its urban retail soul for a drive out to shop at its many malls built within the city limits.

[TheOverdog]

Discounting the one being redeveloped in south Dallas, there are two

You also missed the one that failed and is being redeveloped in North Dallas, which kind of undermines your point that Houston built (many/more???) malls within its city limits. Also, Dallas didn't preserve its urban retail, beyond one instance which I'm sure hung on despite the city: Neimann Marcus downtown. The rest of the stuff I think you are referring to in Highland Park is within the city limits but it's not urban.

It's a good thing that Neimann Marcus hung on, as more retail (called 45-10) is coming in downtown, but it's retail that's suburban in nature (single use - bulldozed a multi-story building for a parking lot), and I don't think the urban areas of Dallas are at the point yet where they can draw quality retail.

Retail needs either density or a small bunch of rich people (and I guarantee they want both) to succeed, and it's not there quite yet in Dallas. That's why most of Dallas' retail is in malls, which create fake density.

[Eye of a poodle]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

You also missed the one that failed and is being redeveloped in North Dallas, which kind of undermines your point that Houston built (many/more???) malls within its city limits. Also, Dallas didn't preserve its urban retail, beyond one instance which I'm sure hung on despite the city: Neimann Marcus downtown. The rest of the stuff I think you are referring to in Highland Park is within the city limits but it's not urban.

It's a good thing that Neimann Marcus hung on, as more retail (called 45-10) is coming in downtown, but it's retail that's suburban in nature (single use - bulldozed a multi-story building for a parking lot), and I don't think the urban areas of Dallas are at the point yet where they can draw quality retail.

Retail needs either density or a small bunch of rich people (and I guarantee they want both) to succeed, and it's not there quite yet in Dallas. That's why most of Dallas' retail is in malls, which create fake density.

The significance of the retail downtown is that it is developing as luxury. That is happening while Uptown itself is developing luxury retail in and around the Crescent. Meanwhile, Knox Park is also turning up in scale. Then there is West Village. I feel that I am understating the point here. Only in Dallas will you also find Lakewood Shopping Center, Preston Center, Mockingbird Station, and Inwood Village. They aren't suburban retail. Neither is Jefferson Blvd. and the Bishops Arts District. Then there is Snider Plaza and the Preston Royal shopping center. These stores are very popular because Dallas is a very unique city. There is something about it that sets the city apart from other cities even beyond the fact that utilizes zoning.
Help me here. Just how is Lower Greenville not urban?
I feel the need to comment on this matter. I didn't realize the significance of Dallas retail until my visit to my aunt and uncle's farm in Kansas. Once a year they either went to Chicago or Dallas to shop. Not St. Loius or Kansas City.
I think you are misleading outsiders on this matter.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by Eye of a poodle

The significance of the retail downtown is that it is developing as luxury. That is happening while Uptown itself is developing luxury retail in and around the Crescent. Meanwhile, Knox Park is also turning up in scale. Then there is West Village. I feel that I am understating the point here. Only in Dallas will you also find Lakewood Shopping Center, Preston Center, Mockingbird Station, and Inwood Village. They aren't suburban retail. Neither is Jefferson Blvd. and the Bishops Arts District. Then there is Snider Plaza and the Preston Royal shopping center. These stores are very popular because Dallas is a very unique city. There is something about it that sets the city apart from other cities even beyond the fact that utilizes zoning.
Help me here. Just how is Lower Greenville not urban?
I feel the need to comment on this matter. I didn't realize the significance of Dallas retail until my visit to my aunt and uncle's farm in Kansas. Once a year they either went to Chicago or Dallas to shop. Not St. Loius or Kansas City.
I think you are misleading outsiders on this matter.

Downtown retail..? You mean Neiman Marcus and Forty Five Ten? Knox Park didn't come across as being a big retail destination either. More of an average inner city neighborhood. Same with West Village. I think you are overstating the point. These areas are nothing unique to Dallas. No one said those areas were suburban retail. Just that Houston has these types of inner city retail destinations too, which for some reason you seem to be trying very hard to turn a blind eye towards. I dont see how its any more unique than other cities? So you're comparing Dallas to Kansas farm country? Hmm.. yeah. I bet those areas in Dallas are pretty unique compared to Kansas farmland. Wealthy people from Mexico and Central America come to Houston to shop.
You seem to be the only one misleading anyone. Yes, Houston has more malls "in the city".. because the city limits are twice as big.

[Jasonsim]

Now that this thread has been hijacked, I would like to say that this is not meant as a place to bicker between these two great cities in Texas, but this was started to display the sheer amount of luxury/upscale shopping that this state boasts while defying its western/cowboy stereotype.

There is a huge revolution happening in both cities currently with Houston River Oaks appearing overnight and opening some of the Texas’ most exclusive stores (John Lobb, Dolce & Gabbana, Moncler, Van Cleef & Arpels...) while the Galleria opened a state of the art Saks Fifth Avenue with only more exciting renovations to come (Christian Louboutin, Celine, Paul & Shark, The Webster...). Dallas is seeing a massive expansion of street retail as Knox-Henderson (Steven Alan, Jonathan Adler, Kate Spade, Nest...) and Main Street (Neiman Marcus, Forty Five Ten, Taschen, Traffic LA, Tenoversix...) are more popular than ever, and with the iconic Northpark Center undergoing an unbelievable store shuffle opening many new exclusives (Longchamp, Sam Edelman,Tory Sport, Rimowa...), as well as Highland Park Village commanding some of the highest retail rents in the state (newly opened Theory, Bandier, Christolfe..).

Both cities are also seeing exciting renovations and new construction in inner city shopping areas (Dallas-Preston Center, Mockingbird Station, Snider Plaza, Bishop Arts & Houston-Rice Village, West/Kirby Ave,..)as well as the typical suburbia centers that are changing the suburbs of both regions to compete with the main cities as a retail destination (Dallas-Plano, Southlake... Houston-The Woodlands).

@TheOverdog, repeat after me... Forty Five Ten, not 45-10, don't insult one of the best independent retailers in the nation.

[Eye of a poodle]

Thanks for keeping up this thread. I will keep reading it and make my contrasting comments elsewhere. I think outsiders from afar learn much more from contrasting than the comparing of all things equal and square.

[TheOverdog]

Forty Five Ten, not 45-10, don't insult one of the best independent retailers in the nation.

It's the same thing. Numbers don't signify different things if you spell them out.

[radiolibre99]

Wow. That Forty Five Ten store is amazing. I didn't even know anything like that could exist much less sell in Texas. Really great stuff. Honestly, I could not picture something like that in Houston.

My brother was telling me about a fashion show happening at the MFA. He said it was really swank and that it showed how Houston was coming up.

Let's hope the best for the two cities. No need to compete, but compliment.

[Gunion Powder]

Originally Posted by Eye of a poodle

For those outside the state wishing clarification, for the most part, the city of Dallas preserved its urban retail. The example I have been giving is the number of malls located within Dallas. Discounting the one being redeveloped in south Dallas, there are two. These are the Dallas Galleria and NorthPark Center. The remaining retail in Dallas is urban, very popular, and a large part of it upscale.

In contrast, I think the city of Houston traded its urban retail soul for a drive out to shop at its many malls built within the city limits.

Within the same distance from downtown that Dallas has NorthPark and Galleria Dallas, Houston only has the Galleria and Memorial. Definitely less retail. Definitely not "many more malls"