Texas A&M Commerce VS. University of North Texas (Houston: loan, employment)

[CollegePalooza]

Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere

So you don't want advice on schools that would be much, much better then your current choices?

It's not as if an MBA alone is some magical document. The name of the school that issues it is a pretty big deal.

Nope, do not want advice on other schools. Is that not understandable.
If you're a realtor and I tell you I'm looking for houses under $130K, would the Realtor give me a ridiculous reply by saying "why would you only want to spend 130K...you can get a far better home for 630k" That's equivalent to the ridiculousness of your comment.

Maybe we should throw Harvard into the mix. Although the tuition would be about $80k+ more....according to you I guess we should discuss it since Harvard is a "pretty big deal"

[getmeoutofhere]

You get what you pay for. You're already paying a lot for graduate school, but the extra bit for some place like SMU is certainly worthwhile for the extra doors and connections it offers.

[momof2dfw]

Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere

You get what you pay for. You're already paying a lot for graduate school, but the extra bit for some place like SMU is certainly worthwhile for the extra doors and connections it offers.

I agree. I'd also add UTD into the mix. I mean............. HELLO! They are all within close proximity of each other, minus TAMU-Commerce. It is the only one that is a bit more "out there". It would be assinine to disallow the option of other very well regarded schools in ones field that are so close by.

Sorry, but when considering colleges and going onto a masters program one DOES need to consider all possible choices. This is NOT like buying real estate. This is coming from someone that does real estate and a mother of a high schooler that is college hunting. Having a budget in real estate is one thing. Trying to find the "right" school for your program is another.

[CollegePalooza]

Thanks everyone for your input! It's helpful to think of things from different angles.

[AustinExPat]

Originally Posted by TexasVines

this is not how it works at all.....there are specific criteria laid out already

I agree that U of Houston and Texas Tech are more deserving than UNT, but you underestimate the role of (state, local, and academic) politics in this process. The absence of a top tier research university in the metroplex is a compelling argument that comes up over and over again, and it isn't going away. There is also the fact that UTA, UTD, UTSA, and UTEP are in the UT system, which already has a top tier research campus.

this also has little to do with business programs specifically since business programs are not usually research oriented at most universities and there are few grants available for most areas of business research

The first point is simply not true. The publication records of faculty in a doctorate granting college of business administration are as thick as those of arts and sciences faculty. The UNT business faculty are no exception: Faculty & Staff Directory « College of Business « UNT. The second point ignores the fact that business faculty get to count their consulting contracts as grants. And it isn't a stretch to do so, since graduate students get employed to work on those contracts.

the reason that TAMU-C is not in the mix is because they offer only a few PhDs the are mostly an undergrad and masters level university

I agree.

UNT is currently in dead last in most of the criteria to obtain the extra funding available and they are specifically last in several of the areas that MUST be met before additional funding is obtained

UTD is well ahead of the others in the metromess in the goals and criteria needed for additional funding, but still behind UH and TTU in most of those criteria

On the other hand, UNT has 149 graduate programs whereas UTD has only 85 despite having been originally a graduate-only campus. UTD has less than half of UNT's enrollment. UNT is the flagship campus in its system, whereas UTD is a satellite campus in its. As you say, any of the competitors (including UNT) can get to the point of meeting the criteria. This makes it easier for factors other than the official criteria to play a deciding role.

I would narrow the field of study (accounting, BCIS, ect) look at the number of professors in that department at each school, try and meet several of them, visit the schools, look at the class sizes, and facilities, and choose the one where you feel you can make the best grades, make the biggest name for yourself, and take advantage of the most internships ect.

This is good advice.

Sorry to seem opinionated, but 25 years in the professorial ranks has yielded a lot of opinions.

[HOUuser]

Unt.

[TexasVines]

Originally Posted by AustinExPat

I agree that U of Houston and Texas Tech are more deserving than UNT, but you underestimate the role of (state, local, and academic) politics in this process. The absence of a top tier research university in the metroplex is a compelling argument that comes up over and over again, and it isn't going away. There is also the fact that UTA, UTD, UTSA, and UTEP are in the UT system, which already has a top tier research campus.

The politics is already over......the criteria for the most part is all laid out....without 45 million in restricted research from the very beginning there is nothing to gain from meeting any of the other criteria because the 45 million in restricted research is first and foremost period.....unT does less than 15 million in restricted research per year which puts them 66% behind the next nearest competitor. The criteria that is not laid out yet needs to be declared by the THECB and it will be the same for all 7 schools period.....and again without 45 million in RESTRICTED RESEARCH PER YEAR it will not matter what other criteria you meet

The first point is simply not true. The publication records of faculty in a doctorate granting college of business administration are as thick as those of arts and sciences faculty. The UNT business faculty are no exception: Faculty & Staff Directory « College of Business « UNT. The second point ignores the fact that business faculty get to count their consulting contracts as grants. And it isn't a stretch to do so, since graduate students get employed to work on those contracts.


Publications mean nothing.......consulting contracts don't count as restricted research which is the criteria that must be met FIRST AND FOREMOST before any of the other criteria matter.....and it does not change the fact that business programs are expensive to run and are not major grain gaining programs at ANY university....unT graduates 160+ PhDs a year yet they are dead last by a large margin in TOTAL and RESTRICTED RESEARCH.......why......because a large number of their PhDs are in the arts, liberal arts, and social sciences which are also not large grant gaining programs.....Medicine, Engineering, Ag., and the Natural Sciences are the programs that bring in the large grants.......Business and Law bring in the large donations.......so again business programs make little difference unless they are graduating people that will make large donations back to the university......looking at unT's endowment their business program is clearly not doing that......again getting or graduating a PhD does not mean a large grant especially a large nationally competitive grant was attached to that PhD


I agree.



On the other hand, UNT has 149 graduate programs whereas UTD has only 85 despite having been originally a graduate-only campus. UTD has less than half of UNT's enrollment. UNT is the flagship campus in its system, whereas UTD is a satellite campus in its. As you say, any of the competitors (including UNT) can get to the point of meeting the criteria. This makes it easier for factors other than the official criteria to play a deciding role.

UTD has less than half the enrollment of unT, yet they still do over 3X the amount of research and restricted research that unT does.....again because UTD has large programs in engineering and the natural sciences while unT has large programs in the arts, social sciences, education, liberal arts, communications, and general studies.....all programs that are last in line for large nationally competitive grants

the unT "system" is a joke.......it is a large primarily undergrad university, a DO school that has never wanted to have anything to do with unT, a south dallas economic development project that has turned into a giant waste of education dollars and had failed to meet enrollment goals multiple times and should be turned over to the DCCD before any more time and money is wasted on it, and a law school that will hopefully be cut before it ever opens because there is a MASSIVE surplus of law grads that can't find decent jobs as it is already even from law schools that will be head and shoulders above any law school unT has for decades.....there is no other criteria other than the criteria ALREADY LAID OUT......being a flagship of a joke system means nothing to anyone.....UTD is still head and shoulders above unT as a university and in all the laid out criteria and it is a stand alone university not a satellite campus as well

This is good advice.

Sorry to seem opinionated, but 25 years in the professorial ranks has yielded a lot of opinions.

opinions are one thing.....facts are another......the criteria are already laid out with the exceptions of a few and those criteria once defined by the THECB will be the same for all the 7 universities.....being large, a "flagship", or "in the metromess" will mean nothing in any of that.......because the first and foremost criteria that MUST BE MET before any of the others matter is already laid out......45 million+ in restricted research......and in that criteria unT is dead last by a factor of 3 over the other universities and unT is dead last in a number of others as well....unT has the smallest college of engineering amongst the 7, the least research productive natural science program, and no Ag program and a medical program that distances from the main university and is geared to primary care not research

UTD is clearly in first amongst the 3 metromess universities in meeting those criteria and UTA is a decent second place.....unT is a LONG way away from those two.....so even if there was a desire to "place" something in the metromess.....unT would be third on that list well apart from the other two choices......the facts bare this out

[feufoma]

UNT.

I got my undergrad degree in Poli Sci from UNT and loved the experience. Landing a job was no problem (honors helps) and then to law school (high honors also helps).

Bottom line: even if you go with Commerce, kick ass and make awesome grades and forge good, solid relationships and you'll be fine. 99% perspiration, remember?

[James2496]

I vote for UNT. I may be wrong, but I thought UNT, UTD, and UTA were all on the list for major research universisties and have already received some funding. Texas A&M Commerce is not even being considered.

[James2496]

Information on UNT's growth toward a Tier 1 University:

UNT Research - The University of North Texas