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View Poll Results: SHould Professionals Be allowed in the Olympics?
YES Let the Pros Play if they want. 21 32.81%
NO The games should be for Amateurs 38 59.38%
I don't care, I'll watch what's on 5 7.81%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-15-2016, 07:47 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 910,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Sure, some NBA players have chosen not to play (but, I note, that this list also includes players who have decided to play in the past, which, again, brings me back to my point about it not making sense to argue that people who think the games are silly/waste of time go/have gone to the games, thereby increasing risk of injury, which would harm their ability to play in the NBA), would play in the games. Still, the last I checked, none of these players have claimed that they thought the games were silly/waste of time. And with the Zika outbreak, its even more ridiculous in my view to claim that those players believe the games are silly/waste of time. In fact, while players like Curry have openly stated they're not playing in order not to aggravate recovery knee injury, others have apparently claimed concerns about Zika (which is a real concern for people trying to have children) as a serious concern: Stephen Curry will opt out of the Olympics, and more NBA players could follow - SBNation.com Not to mention that other NBA stars have mentioned injury/concern for injury as their reason for missing. Ultimately, though, you do have a team comprised of NBA/pros players. While some NBA players may never play in the Olympics (perhaps even because they think the games are "silly" or a waste of time), I don't know how you, especially given the considerations I've mentioned, can serious claim that those players who actually DO decide to play (and, ultimately, this conversation is about them) believe that the games are silly. But, again, every interview/reaction I've seen from NBA players participating in the Olympics have expressed great pride/patriotism in playing for their country during the games. I've never heard a participant in the games say otherwise.

And I'll concede the team is not "best" that the US has to offer, but its still pretty darn good. Moreover, though, due in large part because of the inclusion of a largely NBA squad, the team is likely far better than a team that would be comprised solely of amateurs and remains the best team going into the games.



The fact is that you have provided nothing/poor logic to suggest that NBA players playing in the games believe the games are silly/a waste of time. Meanwhile, the analysis that the players do not believe as you claim when they are willing to risk injury/earnings potential by deciding to play is far stronger.




Umm, I merely looked at the scores for Team USA at the Olympics before FIBA allowed professionals to play (apparently, you didn't).

But, here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...t_the_Olympics

-1936: 20.75 average point differential

-1948: 33.5 average point differential

-1952: 19.5 average point differential

-1956: 53.5 average point differential

-1960: 42.375 average point differential

-1964: 30 average point differential

-1968: 26 average point differential

-1972: 28.777 average point differential

-1976: 14 average point differential

-1984: 32.125 average point differential

-1988: 30.375 average point differential

____________________________________ (NBA era)________________________

-1992: 43.75 average point differential

-1996: 31.625 average point differential

-2000: 21.265 average point differential

-2004: 4.625 average point differential

-2008: 27.875 average point differential

-2012: 32.125 average point differential


Even in the pre-NBA/professional era where there the US didn't win gold when it played (the few times that that happened . . . of course, they also haven't always won gold in the post-NBA era), the overwhelming majority of its games were still blowouts. Interesting (and I only compared the last 6 games without pros/NBA players to account for the fact that there have only been 6 games where pros have been allowed to play, the average point differential (26.8795) is HIGHER than the average point differential once NBA players have been allowed to play (26.8775) . . . if you count all of the pre-NBA era games, the gap becomes even larger.

The fact is that, even in the pre-NBA era (as shown above), Team USA was still blowing away its competition. We should celebrate greatness, not try to limit it by instituting some form of perverse affirmative action for athletes.

Also, even if I agree that the championship for basketball is the NBA championship, that point does nothing to seriously support your contention that NBA players (in the fact of their public proclamations in support of country/national team when playing AND given the fact that they are risking injury to play for country, which threatens to hurt their ability to earn the NBA championship) believe the Olympics are silly If anything, given what I've argued about risking injury, etc., the fact that the NBA championship is the premier basketball championship only greatly weakens claims that the NBA players who play in the Olympics believe the games are silly.
Sorry, but quite a stretch on the reasoning for the players not playing. It doesn't matter if they've played before. Did Michael Phelps take a pass because he's been to the Olympics before? What kind of reasoning is that? It's absolutely ridiculous. If it was so special, they would play every time they had an opportunity. Please spare me the Zika virus excuse (the Zika virus wasn't around all the other years and there were still plenty of players that passed on playing). And again, it IS logical to conclude that it isn't all that special (and your defense that they said nothing but positive things is just nonsense...no logical thinking person would expect them to give anything but positive remarks...seriously, what the hell do you expect them to say ). And you make my case for me every time you comment about players not wanting to play because of the possibility of injury (thank you).

And yes I did glance at the scores and looked at the median (not the average), which is a more practical way of looking at things and only looked at the Gold Medal teams.

2012 28 (largest margin of victory in history with an 83 point victory...wow...so exciting)

2008 27

2000 13.5

1996 28

1992 42

1984 32

1980 18

1976 18

1968 21

1964 26

And of these Gold Medal teams, the Dream teams had 32 out of 40 games with a margin of more than 20 points. The amateurs had 19 out of 33. So 80% versus 58%.

I gave it two more years than when I could have officially started watching so it's far enough (I personally don't care to go back into the ice ages, even if you want to). I seriously doubt the majority of viewers now would even remember or were young enough, to even have watched the Olympics as far back as you want to go (I think color TVs came out in the 50's). In addition, it makes sense to go 20 years in each direction so we have the same number in play. The fact remains that your calculation is completely disingenuous (you even added in two forfeited game in your stats, lol), in addition to using an outlier in the 2004 year to pad your numbers. So of the quality teams (gold medal) you have one amateur team that stands out (1984). After that you have to go down to 1964 (a bit of a reach). The Dream Team had one subpar Gold Medal team in 2000. Not sure you're making much of a case here.

Last edited by bodyforlife99; 07-15-2016 at 09:08 PM..
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:52 PM
 
79,624 posts, read 61,828,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Do you think we should continue to allow professional players in sports such as Basketball, Hockey, Tennis, Golf in the Olympics, or should we allow only Amateurs?
How old are you? You don't know why this happened?

The reason they allow pros is that many totalitarian countries basically had pro teams that they would field against our amatuers and everyone got sick of the obvious hypocrisy.

I mean do you watch the news and realize that there are open talks about banning the entire Russian team from RIO because they used state versions of the CIA and FBI to subvert illegal doping and provide false test results etc etc etc?
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Old 07-21-2016, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Manila
1,139 posts, read 2,009,694 times
Reputation: 793
I do think it'll be better for the Olympics to ban professional athletes!

But for the record, I haven't sat through an Olympic broadcast since Sydney 2000, and I have NO intention of sitting through an Olympic broadcast this year!
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Old 07-29-2016, 02:07 AM
 
1,423 posts, read 1,062,685 times
Reputation: 532
No. Olympic games should represent the best, only the best.
Many poor countries need to have government funded athletes to compete too.
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Old 07-29-2016, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Monnem Germany/ from San Diego
2,296 posts, read 3,153,444 times
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Mixed feelings, being involved in an Olympic sport and having quite a few friends and aquaintences who have competed in the Olympics or campaigned for a spot.

True amatureisem though not a bad thing it self does make it a game for the wealthy at the olympic level. Even when all were supposedly "Amature" most were making their money from the sport even if it was not directly for participating, the others had enough money to fund their campagn out of their own pocket.

All and all I am ok with pro's but I don't think the big league commercial sports, Basketball, Hockey... should be in the Olympics. We see enough of those all year.
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Old 07-31-2016, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,770 posts, read 105,662,693 times
Reputation: 49256
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Do you think we should continue to allow professional players in sports such as Basketball, Hockey, Tennis, Golf in the Olympics, or should we allow only Amateurs?
Absolutely it should be, as intended for amateurs only, but all countries have to agree and it isn't going to happen.
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