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Let's say I choose to represent my son. Can you give me an example of how things could get hostile/antagonistic between myself and the school?
Everybody was advising me to go tell the school everything right away because they will do everything right by my child and now..it turns out they are out to get me?
That is...what I was fearing in the beginning of this thread?...
Oh, Lord.
First of all, *you* would not represent your son. Your job is to be his mother. An advocate would represent the family and help to clarify special education law IF there were a situation where it was not being followed.
However, it's important to remember that you may never have problems with the school district. Charging into the meeting with lawyers, advocates and a huge chip on your shoulder would be the best way I could guarantee for you to set up a hostile/antagonistic relationship between you and the school district. Why would you want to borrow that trouble? Yes, I agree that an advocate is a step down from a lawyer in terms of how much it's going to freak the school district out. But it's still going to be a warning shot across the bow if you come in with one, despite having never even met them or given them a chance to do the right thing and meet your son's needs appropriately. It would be like walking into the store with your guns drawn, assuming every person in there is out to attack you. If you're living in a zombie-ridden apocalypse, that's perfectly appropriate. Absent something like that, it makes you look like the unbalanced one--the one everyone needs to treat like a threat.
It will make everyone scared of you, it will make everyone start documenting everything up the wazoo, assuming you are the sort of parent who will make it your mission to make everyone's life hell. It will make the smile vanish from everyone's face when they hear your name or your son's because they will assume you are out to cause trouble and make their lives difficult. That is the last thing you want.
Now, if the school had done the wrong thing or was not providing your son with what he needed, then absolutely an advocate can be a great thing. But please, for your son's sake, do everything possible to make this a positive experience for him, rather than coming in assuming the world is out to get you. That sort of hostile attitude will breed hostility and fear in others. You want to be on the same team as the teachers and the school, everyone working for what is best for your son. Approach this like you are teammates, not enemies. Only take the steps of "we're enemies" like lawyers and advocates if/when that becomes necessary. In many cases it isn't and once you cross that bridge, they may never see you the same way again.
Only take the steps of "we're enemies" like lawyers and advocates if/when that becomes necessary. In many cases it isn't and once you cross that bridge, they may never see you the same way again.
I disagree with this. There's a way to stand up for your child and his rights without setting up a hostile environment. Just because you have an advocate doesn't mean you're loaded for bear. The laws regarding disabilities and IEPs are complicated. I have heard of child study and eligibility meetings going horribly wrong because parents don't know their rights and the administration knows that. Principals have told parents since their child isn't failing, he's not eligible for an IEP. That's not correct.
In a perfect world everyone could be on the same team, working for what's best for the child, but that doesn't always happen. And the process of testing, determining eligibility, developing an IEP and then signing off on all the paperwork is long and arduous. If you don't have an expert and something does not go as it should, you can revisit it, but the time involved in getting all the parties together again just delays your child getting the help he needs. I'd recommend having an advocate just so the process isn't prolonged if there is a problem, unless you're an expert on those laws.
The administration and the county people at the meetings are professionals, well-versed in the laws. You should have a professional representing your point of view too.
There's a way to stand up for your child and his rights without setting up a hostile environment.
In a perfect world everyone could be on the same team, working for what's best for the child, but that doesn't always happen.
We agree on some points. I agree that some people have the ability to stand up for their child without setting up a hostile environment. But others don't. It's also important to remember that "hostile environment" is in the mind of the participants. What player X feels is fine, player Y may interpret as hostile, and react accordingly. IF there is a problem, then absolutely, you stand up for your child. Hostile environment, be damned. But to come in with all guns drawn and a glare of suspicion can set a really bad tone for the year and put up a divide of caution and mistrust between teacher and parent, when maybe that isn't even necessary.
A meeting between parent and teacher may take on a different tone when others are brought in. If there is a problem on the school's end of things--then that's a positive thing, and I very much support getting an advocate if something isn't going the way it should be. If there wasn't a problem, it has the potential to set an adversarial tone where maybe that wasn't necessary.
Let's say I choose to represent my son. Can you give me an example of how things could get hostile/antagonistic between myself and the school?
Everybody was advising me to go tell the school everything right away because they will do everything right by my child and now..it turns out they are out to get me?
That is...what I was fearing in the beginning of this thread?...
Oh, Lord.
That's not what was said.
But to answer the question, an IEP is created by a team of people: you and/or your co-parent, your child's teacher (or a representative of his teachers if he has more than one, like in middle or high school), the school SpEd teacher (if your child is in GenEd), possibly the Gifted teacher if appropriate, the principal or vice principal, the district LEA rep (referenced in an earlier post), your child if that's age appropriate, and anyone you'd care to invite (advocate, a scribe, your Aunt Fanny who knows the ropes, attorney, outside therapist, physician, whomever). Also attending might be school-based therapists, or the district head of a specific therapy department. Possibly the psychologist. Our IEP teams have ranged from 4 to 15 people, depending on what was going to be discussed and if word got out I was bringing muffins. <g> I think 8-10 is average, IME.
Needless to say, with that many people, there may be discussion-- sometimes heated-- and disagreement on what interventions might be appropriate for a child. Especially with an initial IEP, there are placement issues (usually a rollicking good time, and yes, I'm being facetious), availability and frequency of therapies as well as group-vs-individual, possibly the timing of said therapies (I know one family who has it stipulated that their child cannot miss any academic time whatsoever, and another whose child gets speech Tx during the class PE time). If there are behavior issues, that's sometimes a flashpoint. A few certain gen ed teachers are always a PIA. Likewise, there are parents who are so prickly the school board staff just automatically dig in their heels. It really depends on the makeup of the team, the personalities, and the specific needs of the child. If you know you're asking for something the school hasn't done before, don't be surprised by reluctance. OTOH, if it's what your child needs, desperately, and not just something cool you read about in a parents' forum, it's worth the fight.
I just did not realize that once you disclose, the school may back away from offering those services, or only offer scantily, or what have you.
For ex, my son's major issues are with:
- attention (staying on a task he's not 100% self-driven to)
- executive function (tasks like "dress yourself", "clean your work area", etc seem to daunting for him.
- social skills (he can say the wrong things at the wrong time when around age peers, not very skilled in becoming part of a group dynamic), etc.
These are just some examples. What kind of services might the school want to withhold in such situations?
How on earth could anyone know this without knowing your child or your child's school?
Different children in different classroom situations need different interventions. But since parents are their children's first teachers, and you know him better than anyone else, let's turn the question around-- what do you think Fernando might need to remediate those issues? What do you think will help him remember his schoolwork, or help him when his class plays kickball in gym, or keep him on task when it's time for small reading groups?
I disagree with this. There's a way to stand up for your child and his rights without setting up a hostile environment. Just because you have an advocate doesn't mean you're loaded for bear. The laws regarding disabilities and IEPs are complicated. I have heard of child study and eligibility meetings going horribly wrong because parents don't know their rights and the administration knows that. Principals have told parents since their child isn't failing, he's not eligible for an IEP. That's not correct.
It doesn't have to. But in many districts, it's the perception, whether or not it's the reality.
I've done some advocacy within a fairly narrow category in several districts in my state. The minute parents tell the school they're recording the meeting, or bringing an advocate, it's seen as upping the stakes, and the schools respond accordingly. It's far better for parents to buy a book or three ("Emotions to Advocacy" is a great one), go to a few inservices themselves (Pete Wright holds seminars that aren't terribly expensive, and local advocacy groups often do as well), and search applicable law on the internet. (Google is the parent-of-a-disabled-kid's friend.) I'd do my own homework, and avoid hiring an advocate unless you're pretty sure things have the potential to go badly without one. Because honestly, if you don't educate yourself in the first place, an advocate can only do so much for you.
It doesn't have to. But in many districts, it's the perception, whether or not it's the reality.
I'd do my own homework, and avoid hiring an advocate unless you're pretty sure things have the potential to go badly without one. Because honestly, if you don't educate yourself in the first place, an advocate can only do so much for you.
It doesn't have to. But in many districts, it's the perception, whether or not it's the reality.
I've done some advocacy within a fairly narrow category in several districts in my state. The minute parents tell the school they're recording the meeting, or bringing an advocate, it's seen as upping the stakes, and the schools respond accordingly. It's far better for parents to buy a book or three ("Emotions to Advocacy" is a great one), go to a few inservices themselves (Pete Wright holds seminars that aren't terribly expensive, and local advocacy groups often do as well), and search applicable law on the internet. (Google is the parent-of-a-disabled-kid's friend.) I'd do my own homework, and avoid hiring an advocate unless you're pretty sure things have the potential to go badly without one. Because honestly, if you don't educate yourself in the first place, an advocate can only do so much for you.
Yep. I agree with the book Emotions to Advocacy. It's a great book and Wrightslaw is a great website if you want to know your rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reebo I disagree with this. There's a way to stand up for your child and his rights without setting up a hostile environment. Just because you have an advocate doesn't mean you're loaded for bear. The laws regarding disabilities and IEPs are complicated. I have heard of child study and eligibility meetings going horribly wrong because parents don't know their rights and the administration knows that. Principals have told parents since their child isn't failing, he's not eligible for an IEP. That's not correct.
It doesn't have to. But in many districts, it's the perception, whether or not it's the reality.
I disagree. Having a professional who knows the ins and outs of the IEP process can be invaluable to parents, especially in what can be an emotion-charged meeting. I'm not particularly sure I care how it's perceived, if the parents and advocate conduct themselves in a polite, professional manner.
And I'm all for parents educating themselves on the law, but doing a few internet searches is no match for parents facing a panel of county employees whose job is special education. It's similar to saying if you've read case law online you're ready to represent yourself in court against someone who passed the bar.
Aconite, can you explain why it's considered an aggressive move to record the meeting or have an advocate present? Wouldn't everyone say and do the same things whether the meeting is being recorded or not, or whether there's a third party there or not?
It doesn't have to. But in many districts, it's the perception, whether or not it's the reality.
The minute parents tell the school they're recording the meeting, or bringing an advocate, it's seen as upping the stakes, and the schools respond accordingly.
This is what I was trying to say. Thank you for your good posts.
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Very well said.
