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Because we have no money. We've even cut down on law enforcement and that's just as important as education IMHO. I would never want to be told they're too short staffed to send someone over if I ever have an emergency.
I did see an interesting site yesterday and I should've copied and pasted it here. We do come in last for pay, BUT the chart showed the percentage that each state actually paid out in wages for education. It was a percentage of the actual $$ available in each state and we came in at number 31, I believe.
Was it you or was it Chris who came up with a good solution for raising teacher's wages without raising taxes? I remember that it was very interesting.
I wonder if there would be any stats available about where we place for other things? My thoughts are that EMTs and paramedics and law enforcement and firefighters and nearly everyone else probably comes in last in our state, too.
Keep in mind though that some schools are reducing the week down to 4 days. Do you really think we should be thinking about extreme raises for 9 month employees who get Christmas vacation, approx. 10 paid holidays a year, sick leave, personal days, reduced lunches, a good benefit package etc.?
My point is that our state is nearly broke. We're barely keeping our heads above water. The educators will get a cost of living raise plus a bit more and in some cases, their hours will be reduced. Many people have seen their wages frozen. Many places have either laid people off or cut them back to a 32 hour work week and their pay will be for 32 hours, too~not 40 like that of a salaried employee. Our school for the deaf may be closing. They may end up cutting out the zero to 3 program for children who need our help because of disabilities, etc. Things are just not going that well right now.
The reason that educators are such a hot topic is because of the NEA. They like evoking pity and support yet we hear nothing from the other professions. Have you checked out the wages of a 12 month, full time police officer in our state? They don't work an 8 to 4 job and their lives are in more danger (generally) then the lives of educators. I wouldn't want to be out there from 10 at night until 8 in the morning even in our semi-safe state.
Factory workers~keep in mind that ours generally make from 8 to 15 per hour. That's so much lower then the 70 per hour the auto makers (in factories) make in other states. But our factory workers have no union to make noise for them.
It'd be interesting to see the stats of what we pay our nurses compared to other states.
I'm not anti-teachers either. I have friends who are educators and they are some of the nicest people I've ever had the privilege of knowing. Unfortunately, we're just a low paying state. The focus always turns out to be on teachers and many of them even agree that wages/benies are the least of their problems with their profession. Many of them choose to belong to unions they can join through their church rather then the NEA. It's one of the most powerful unions in this country and they're less then desireable for a lot of reasons.
Maybe we could come up with solutions to raise our entire state up instead of just the one group. I have no ideas on how to do that, but is it possible that we could see higher wages all around once this recession lets up? I'm just not sure how that could be done without bringing unions into the state because that may not be the best solution.
Adding~sorry that this post is a bit disorganized. I'm tired.
I too don't see how raising teacher pay will solve any problems of better schooling. Sure, teachers work hard and they are definitely underpaid for what they do but don't you think they knew what they were getting into when they decided to become teachers- especially in SD? I think of most of my teachers throughout the years and they were all married to businessmen or doctors or lawyers and they didn't struggle financially. I can see a fresh-young out of college teacher demanding higher pay, but these women are usually well taken care of housewives. Like Jammie said, their benefits are FAR better than any other South Dakota worker's and they get more paid vacation than the French.
And as for the NEA, I don't understand how a teachers' association can support abortion. That's their clientele!
Camden Northsider: The state is more diverse than even I knew when i lived there. Just did a presentation in Pierre, and as such, did a ton of research on SD. This is paraphrased from South Dakota: Definition from Answers.com
The population that gathered in South Dakota from 1860-1920 was as varied as the terrain. Thirteen of fourteen ancestral tribes of Sioux formed nine modern reservation societies that gained recognition by the U.S. Government as "domestic dependent nations." Due to the Sioux's gradual relinquishment of land over more than half a century, South Dakota's first generation of immigrants included representations from most European nations. Immigration records reveal that they included—in order of diminishing numbers—Norwegians, Germans (including Polish), Russians (including Germans from Russia and Finns), Swedes, Danes, Anglo Canadians, Dutch, English and Welsh, Irish, Austrians and Czechs (including Bohemians, Moravians, and Slovakians), Scots, Swiss, and French Canadians. Briefly, Chinese worked in the Black Hills, while both African and Jewish Americans founded agricultural colonies, bringing the total number of enclaves to thirty-six.
Ethnic variety spawned diversity in religious persuasion: the state was home to Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopal, Presbyterian, Congregational, Mennonite, Hutterite, Dutch Reformed, Baptist, Methodist, and Jewish denominations, as well as practitioners of traditional Native American religions. Despite the efforts of Christian missionaries, the tribes preserved the traditional belief system of the Sacred Pipe, and added to it the practices of the Native American (Peyote) Church. Within ten years of statehood, immigrant South Dakotans supported sixteen higher educational institutions and a greater number of academies—an array of choices that encouraged the preservation of cultural variety. When the immigrant population peaked in 1930, there existed no "typical South Dakotans."
My observation is this: all those groups intermarried to make it LOOK like a white enclave. But I had a good friend in grade school who "LOOKED" white, but whose last name was Ching (definitely a Chinese name.) I looked back at some old year books, and with my 30 years experience in the extremely diverse society of Hawaii, I realized that several classmates were of various and sundry other races - Libyan, Indian (from India), Asian, African-american-- only they had assimilated so much that we just didn't notice.
The book Dakota talked about some of the insular behaviors of South Dakota. And to an extent, that has been true. But as I continue to say, it isn't all that different from any other state with small towns. THAT is the gestalt of small town EARTH. I've always had the theory that everything boils down to TRIBE. Think about that awful movie Clan of the Cave Bear. The tribe was brown, and a two-year old little white girl came along. They were frightened of her, because she was different.
The movie was awful, but the point well taken. We are hardwired to mistrust that which is different; we feel safer dealing with the Knowns. People who travel, and/or who have a lot of exposure to the world and to other travelers, tend to be more accepting and tolerant of differences. We can't legislate decency. We can't force people to think the way we do. We can only expose people to new ideas and new thoughts in an environment that is safe.
As I've said, I've lived in 4 states and worked in 6 countries. We have it good. Every state has lousy education right now. The "no child left behind' act didn't help. And instead of paying millions of dollars to grown men and women to play sports, we should be paying that kind of wage to teachers who are forming the very basis of our future. And we don't. But maybe the answer is deeper: maybe it's time we recognize that the world has changed with the internet (look at US!) and we need to use this time of crisis with our education system to re-engineer education. We need to look at it from the bottom up and change it so it makes sense in 21st century earth. Our kids are bored out of their skulls. That is a whole 'nother thread... but don't beat SD up for being like most other states. All I know is the education I got there was stellar!
I have read the book "Dakota" when I was in high school. It is an interesting aspect of rural areas of South Dakota and may be easily applicable to rural areas of North Dakota, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Kansas (and even other areas such as the plains of Montana, Wyoming, Eastern Colorado, parts of Western Texas/panhandle, and NE New Mexico) since many of their rural areas have very similar histories and are going through similar issues that rural South Dakota communities and areas that are facing.
The issues facing rural South Dakota and other rural areas of the Great Plains and Midwest such as the exodus of the younger population to the cities, consolidation of agiculture (which cuts the amount of labor needed and may reduce the need for as many smaller towns from an economic sense), along with other issues are complex issues that have been facing this part of the country (with the exception for larger towns and cities) since the 1920s/1930s.
Solving the problems facing rural South Dakota are not easy and takes effort and time. To be able to tackle the issues such as an exodus of young people, it takes leadership, courage, and coopeation by many along with vision. Easier said than done, but is attainable.
I too don't see how raising teacher pay will solve any problems of better schooling. Sure, teachers work hard and they are definitely underpaid for what they do but don't you think they knew what they were getting into when they decided to become teachers- especially in SD? I think of most of my teachers throughout the years and they were all married to businessmen or doctors or lawyers and they didn't struggle financially. I can see a fresh-young out of college teacher demanding higher pay, but these women are usually well taken care of housewives. Like Jammie said, their benefits are FAR better than any other South Dakota worker's and they get more paid vacation than the French.
And as for the NEA, I don't understand how a teachers' association can support abortion. That's their clientele!
Good point on the last comment. Supporting abortion (less potential students) is a wierd position by NEA. They are OK for advocacy but may go too far at times. Most of the teachers that I had worked very hard at their job and were very professional in their work. Fortunately, I had teachers who cared about their students and wanted them to succeed (and were in it for the true desire to teach kids instead of the money and benefits).
They deserve better than what they are getting, given that they go four years to college and start out in the low to mid-20s for pay. Many other careers start higher and teachers are one of the more important occupations in our society. Many have to put up with a lot of crap: administration, bratty kids (some due to parents doing a lousy job of parenting), BS from the Federal Government (No Child Left Behind-an underfunded program that forces teachers to teach by the test and is unfair to hanicapped students and schools with many disadvantage students). Yes, there needs to be standards, but kids are not robots and teachers need to have some flexibility in their teaching styles and they often teach a diverse group of kids: slow learners, fast learners, visual learners, book learners, and the list goes on. Yes, I may be biased and a lot of it due to dating a gal who was an Education major and seeing things from her perspective. A lot of people do not quite understand the challenges that our educators face.
Another way to help teachers is to have tuition forgiveness if they choose to stay in South Dakota for at least 3-5 years and tuition covered for contintuing education. Continuing education for teachers, all teachers, will help along with a pay structure that ecourages good performance as opposed to a standard tenure based system.
Yes, teachers have benefits and work nine months out of the year. Those are perks. As mentioned before, teachers often have to put up with a lot of crap. Any job has that too.
I agree with Jammie's thoughts on raising the teacher pay. I work in a factory here in Sioux Falls and I make about $10.50 an hr. I wish I made as much as teachers made at entry level employment, its about a 3k raise a year from my current job. But I can accept my wage and job because its needed to live, obviously everyone in the world would love to have more money for their job. I am strongly anti-union though. I applied for one job when I was in high school and that was a union, I'm not too big on the fact that you HAVE to join it if you accept the job. I am not anti-teacher either, a couple of my family friends are teachers and I have no issues with them, I just have an issue with the fact, like all unions, keep complaining about their 'perceived' lack of pay for their job. Professional athletic unions are a PRIME example of this, threatening lockouts if they don't get paid a certain percentage of the league profits. But, on the other hand, I know that a majority of the teachers have to put up with more crap from kids these days then other professions.....Also, I don't think that people take into account the difference of cost of living.
This website has the pay for teachers throughout the country. The number one state is Connecticut, if I'm not mistaken, Connecticut is part of the 'metropolis' that is Washington, D.C. to New York City.....Since they're so close and I'm sure that the suburbs that are part of the NYC metro have a lot higher pay to compensate for the LOT higher cost of living comparatively......I'd like to see a site that has a comparison in cost of living to pay, to see if we still rank number 50. I also have to agree with Jammie in the fact that emergency personnel are underpaid as well. Teacher Salaries by State | Employment Spot
Do they no longer have the forgiveness loan for educators? Unless they've changed things, grads who teach five years in one school district have their entire college loan erased after five years. Now considering that most don't start paying until about 12 months after graduation, it seems like they are only paying 4 years on that loan. Someone please post and let me know if that has changed throughout time. That is the only profession that I'm aware of that has ever gotten that perk.
We have a scanner and when we hear the sirens, we often turn it on. Guess we're snoopy. Seriously, I'll bet a lot of the emergency personnel wish they would've chosen the teaching profession. They are often called out in the middle of the night after already working an 8 to 12 hour shift during the day. They're out in the cold and their jobs are not easy either. Yet, you hear nothing about raising their wages. Some of the things I read about them is that there is no money for over time or no money for patrol cars. That's pretty huge in comparison to no money for extra crayons in the schools.
In fact, if the Gov's new budget proposals go through, not a single one of them that is employed by the state will even get a raise this year~not even a cost of living raise. I'm sure many of them would take a mouthy little student any day over having to go to horrific accidents or bar fights or some of the worse domestic disturbances, etc. They work 12 months a year~no holidays off unless it would fall on their regular day off~no summers off, etc. It's getting to the point that a degree is preferred especially in the more populated areas. If you prorate the wages for amount of time actually on the job, the educators are faring quite well.
Nurses~think of the things they have to deal with~bloody messes, dying patients, the chance of getting aids or other horrible things, etc. They work 12 hr. shifts that end up being 13 hour shifts with their consultation times before and after their 12 hours is over. They do get some good perks, but have you ever seen how intimdating Drs. can be toward them~in front of patients on top of it???? They're also required to work 12 months a year and holidays again are worked unless they're fortunate enough to get one off on occasion. Many work overnight hours and try to sleep during the daytime. Nothing cushy about their jobs either and they get no loan forgiveness. I doubt the wages they're paid here are also close to the bottom in comparison to other states.
I could go on, but it's endless. We're just a low paying state, but all you hear is the NEA making noise.
And to be fair and not turn this totally into a teacher's salary debate, our state isn't perfect in the fact that we have some of the worst winters in the nation. That's my pet peeve. I actually worry about people who live in a very moderate climate who have an interest in moving here. It's not so much people from neighboring states because they do know what cold is like. But for people who's lowest temp has been freezing, I hate to see them spend all the time and money to relocate and realize that 20 below feels nothing like freezing. AND our windchills can be horrible!!
Guess that is my worst gripe about our state. I mean, we're low crime, low cost of living, mostly friendly and kind people, etc. But I'd sure hate to lead anyone into thinking that they've found the Garden of Eden here.
OK, here's another negative thing about our state~IMHO only. I'd guess that the majority of people are proud of the anti-smoking campaign in our state. I'm not because I do smoke a bit and I enjoy that freedom. They spend thousands yearly on the posters saying that half the people who start smoking stop and the other half continue for 16 to 20 years at which time they either stop or die. Guess I've been living on borrowed time about 25 years now since I've smoked a bit nearly my entire life. Anyone who doesn't believe that doesn't remember the 60s. I would never encourage anyone to start smoking, but here's my point~
Recently they raised the tax on cigs an extra 1 per pack. You can see by the link above that we have one of the highest rates in the nation for tax on cigs after that dollar increase. They had done articles bragging about how they've gotten the majority of smokers to stop. I chuckled when I read that because a strong 25% of the population of our state do smoke. What most had done was cross state borders to get their stash, but I figured that the state feeling they did something good was ok. Later they actually came out with an article talking about the tremendous drop in revenue and that they had messed up because other states were getting the extra $$.
Now they're proposing a strict smoking ban. You've probably seen the commericials that are out. If they can't do something honestly, it makes you wonder about their true goal.
The woman who had waited tables to support herself and her daughter had never stepped foot in our state. In fact, she was from Canada. (the one with the smoker's tumor who'd never smoked a day in her life) We have a friend who had a heart attack at age 40~went to the Dr.~was sent over to Sx. Falls to a specialist~the first thing he heard was, "Uhuh, another smoker." That guy had never smoked so the Dr. was more sympathetic. Just one situation and not isolated. The Dr. was probably bummed because he couldn't add that stat into the campaign.
What they're proposing now is allowing only outside smoking and they even said it would be the strongest smoking laws in the nation. BUT the loss of revenue from people crossing state lines AND the drop they would see in video lottery gambling would be staggering. It could drop our state into an extremely deep recession. I imagine the thoughts are connected to the addictive personality traits. They said that many smokers are gamblers and would visit casinos in nearby states if smoking was totally banned in them. Double loss of revenue.
Now I'm not an advocate for smoking and I realize the feelings many people have about that. I smoke very little, but I want that freedom and in fact, I'm FINE with going outside cause I always do anyway. I don't gamble~maybe a few dollars a year in a DakotaCash ticket or a few nickels in a machine, etc. But can you imagine the impact it will have on our state if they do this? And why pass the strictest laws in the nation? They even mentioned the dollar amount they felt the state would lose and it was tremendous. We already have high enough property taxes so the next move would probably be a state income tax. Even if you're anti-smoking and anti-gambling, the dollar amount is something to definitely think about.
About abortion~I don't personally believe in it, but we seem to be the only state in the Union who is trying to ban it. You'd think a Southern state with mainly Southern Baptists would be at the lead of that, but no~it's our overly Conservative state. Of course I'd rather that abortion would've never came to be, but there are those who are not opposed to it. SO, will our state continue in their fight even though the Freedom of Choice bill has been signed? Legally, it doesn't appear that any state will be able to override that, but will our state continue spending $$ and trying without any backing from any other states? Of course, there is a bit of moral backing, but where's the $$$?
non smoker here THRILLED with the change, and have been thinking "it's about time!". I can't stand going into the Outback for dinner, having to deal with cigarette smoke. The first couple times I ate out after moving here I couldn't believe all the smoke, until I realized that where I moved from it was against the law and here it wasn't.
First of all let me say, I do not smoke. After saying that, I believe this anti-smoking thing has gone WAY TOO FAR overboard. When I was in college and I went to the bars, I expected to have smokers there, its just a way of life, heck, I knew people that only smoked when they drank. Nowadays, over in Mankato, (where I went to school) all the bars are smoke free, all the people have to go outside to smoke. I'm sorry, but even walking from the car into the bar it was freezing because you don't bring a jacket you know because at the end of the night, more than likely, you'll forget it ........I feel sorry for them in the sense that they have to go freeze their butts off just to smoke a cigarette. What happened to 'America: land of the free!', now its 'America: land of the Politically Correct, don't **** someone off!!!!'.......Now, I cannot stand the smell of cigarette smoke anywhere I go, but I don't think that people need to be shunned because they do this and laws made especially for them so they can't do something they enjoy.....If thats the case, (hypothetically) I want to have laws made that small, noisy children cannot be brought out in public, if cigarette smoke is so offensive to some, small noisy children are offensive to me, especially when I'm at Applebees or some other restaurant trying to enjoy a date with my wife and all I can hear is some 3 yr old screaming because they didn't get macaroni and cheese!!!! (hypothetically) Again, why should only some portion of the population be banned from places because of activities they choose to do.....And this post is by NO MEANS meant to offend anyone, it just a discussion statement.....
if it hadn't been proven that 2nd hand smoke kills, I would agree with you. But since it has been proven, I support having the establishments non smoking. I've lived where it was made illegal years ago. It took some adjusting and it's just the norm there.
OH, and unfortunately, screaming children in public is not against the law
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I have friends who are educators and they are some of the nicest people I've ever had the privilege of knowing. Unfortunately, we're just a low paying state. The focus always turns out to be on teachers and many of them even agree that wages/benies are the least of their problems with their profession. Many of them choose to belong to unions they can join through their church rather then the NEA. It's one of the most powerful unions in this country and they're less then desireable for a lot of reasons. 
