Eyman’s car-tab initiative violates state Constitution, says complaint by Seattle, King County and others (Yakima: casinos, tax)

[grega94]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

What does ST3 have to do with car registration fees? Drivers don't utilize mass transit and should not be the ones funding it. Need more money for MT? Simple solution-raise fares to the point that they fund it-let the users pay their own way. No one hands tax money to drivers for their insurance, their car payments, their gas bill. Let alone their registration, their sales tax or their fuel tax. Why should drivers have to subsidise MT?

Drivers benefit from having to deal with less traffic, it is hard to imagine considering the traffic still exists, but next time you see an articulated bus (with a capacity of 200 people) packed full of people, now imagine that bus gets replaced with 200 cars, let’s see how much you will enjoy your commute? Or how about the light rail train, each car can carry around 200 people, and there are usually 3 cars that are hooked up, that is potentially taking 600 cars of the road in that one instance. Also it’s pretty straight forward why fares are not increased so that they cover the full cost, because then it would be too expensive to use, imagine if every road was tolled, I doubt many people would be driving. Sometimes it makes more sense to subsidize certain things because the benefits out way the costs.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

I made my (conceding) point. But you just want to keep arguing. Good night.

You posted: "Perhaps there is some confusion on my part on what 976 meant. I interpreted it as the entire State would pay for ST. I still don't completely understand it."

What don't you understand? Are you still doubting that taxpayers outside the ST District pay nothing to finance Sound Transit, when every major media outlet here says that is the case? Sound Transit's own budget statements show that they receive zero dollars from the state. Where are you hearing otherwise? Right-wing talk radio? Maybe you need to get out of the disinformation echo chamber...

[travis t]

Originally Posted by Seacove

If ST3 money comes from ST3 residents, who cares? Why does Walla Walla have a say? That said, the courts can sort it out and Pierce and Snohomish should lose their portion of ST3 as well as anything else they can't pay for. Ideally we would get this down to the district level and not just the county.

This would be fine, except that we both know that ST is not going to let Pierce and Snohomish out of their embrace even though both have now voted against ST. As long as their gerrymandered district continues to provide them with a majority, they will claim all territory within it.

Now tell me, who is being undemocratic? Who is ignoring local voters wishes in favor of decisions made by voters in another county????

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by travis t

This would be fine, except that we both know that ST is not going to let Pierce and Snohomish out of their embrace even though both have now voted against ST. As long as their gerrymandered district continues to provide them with a majority, they will claim all territory within it.

Now tell me, who is being undemocratic? Who is ignoring local voters wishes in favor of decisions made by voters in another county????

Sound Transit was formed by all three counties:

Sound Transit is a regional transit agency serving King, Pierce, and Snohomish counties with light rail, commuter rail, and express-bus service. Officially called the Central Puget Sound Regional Transit Authority (RTA), it was created by the three participating county governments in 1993; residents approved funding in a 1996 vote.

[In 1990] the Washington State Legislature, led by Representative Ruth Fisher (1925-2005), took an essential step toward making light rail a reality by passing the High Capacity Transit Act. Doing so created a Joint Regional Policy Committee to coordinate efforts between King, Pierce, and Snohomish County transit agencies; funded the work; and gave the counties the local taxing authority necessary to fund high-capacity transit.

https://www.historylink.org/File/8002

Subarea equity is a legal requirement of the Sound Transit enabling legislation:

Sound Transit's policy of subarea equity means tax dollars raised in each of the five geographic areas forming the Sound Transit District are used for the projects and services that benefit that area's residents. Subarea equity requirements are legally binding and regularly undergo independent audits. The five subareas are: Snohomish County, Seattle area, South King County, East King County and Pierce County.

https://www.soundtransit.org/get-to-...gional-transit

So, Snohomish County residents in the ST District are receiving transit benefits proportionate to the tax revenues they contribute. Seceding from Sound Transit would mean no Sounder North and no express buses from Snohomish County to Downtown Seattle. I suppose that commuters could just stick their thumbs out and hitch...

My gripe is that Lynnwood, Snohomish County, is scheduled to get light rail in 2024, while Ballard, in Seattle, has to wait 12 more years.

[Botev1912]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

My gripe is that Lynnwood, Snohomish County, is scheduled to get light rail in 2024, while Ballard, in Seattle, has to wait 12 more years.

Lynnwood Link is an extension of the current one. Ballard Link will be a brand new line.

[rkcarguy]

Crazydonkey and Seacove, I am looking for an answer to a simple question. If I-976 doesn't remove local voter approved taxes/fee's, and you state that the rest of the state isn't paying anything for ST, then why are they suing over it's passing and whining about the loss of millions of dollars?

IF its true, that in the depths of I-976, its stated that "*New* local voter approved taxes/fee's....." then that makes a bit more sense. In my opinion the best fix for that without going against the will of the voters, is to simply amend it so existing *local voter approved taxes* are carried over with a "base" price for tabs of $30.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Botev1912

Lynnwood Link is an extension of the current one. Ballard Link will be a brand new line.

The claim was that Snohomish County was getting the short-end of the stick, since they don't get light rail until 2024. My point was simply that Ballard got an even shorter-end: No ST express buses, no Sounder, and no light rail until 2036, even though we pay the same taxes.

[Botev1912]

BTW Marysville, Lake Stevens and Stanwood are not in the ST District but they also have express buses to Seattle (Community Transit).

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

Crazydonkey and Seacove, I am looking for an answer to a simple question. If I-976 doesn't remove local voter approved taxes/fee's, and you state that the rest of the state isn't paying anything for ST, then why are they suing over it's passing and whining about the loss of millions of dollars?

IF its true, that in the depths of I-976, its stated that "*New* local voter approved taxes/fee's....." then that makes a bit more sense. In my opinion the best fix for that without going against the will of the voters, is to simply amend it so existing *local voter approved taxes* are carried over with a "base" price for tabs of $30.

The initiative says that it doesn't do what it does do. That's deception. The judge who issued the injunction agrees. See my link above.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Botev1912

BTW Marysville, Lake Stevens and Stanwood are not in the ST District but they also have express buses to Seattle (Community Transit).

How long do you think that'll last with Community Transit bleeding red ink due to eliminating MVET funding:

Funding that has been awarded to Community Transit from this Multimodal Transportation Account includes:

· $416,000 in grant funding to support our Commute Trip Reduction (CTR) program in the 2019-2021 biennium. Through the Commute Trip Reduction program, Community Transit works with major employers in Snohomish County to reduce traffic congestion by providing alternative commuter options for employees.


· $1.7M in special needs transit grants in the 2019-2021 biennium. Community Transit’s special needs programs allow us to provide transportation services for people who may not have access to transportation due to age, income and disability.


· $5 million in Regional Mobility Grant funds for Swift Green Line operations.


· $10M to support future Swift bus rapid transit projects through the Connecting Washington funding package.


Future funding from Special Needs Transportation, Commute Trip Reduction, Vanpool Investment and Regional Mobility Grant program are also at risk for reductions in funding if Initiative 976 passes. Community Transit has assumed $26.2 million dollars from state grant funding through 2025 for projects that maintain our system and expand service for our customers.

https://communitytransit.blogspot.co...-on-i-976.html