Eyman’s car-tab initiative violates state Constitution, says complaint by Seattle, King County and others (how much, house)

[travis t]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

Yes, the Sound Transit District was created by the state. How does that make locally approved and collected taxes subject to a statewide vote? It doesn't.

Do you even live in the ST District? (This is the second time I've asked this.)

You should be able to figure out that, yes, I'm in the ST district from my 'location entry.' I'm not sure what my home address has to do with the discussion, but the answer is yes.

ST was created by the state. That's why it is subject to the authority of the state, and in turn to a statewide vote. The state initiative process is intended as a way for voters to basically over-ride the state legislature. It's intended to put state legislative power in the hands of the people.

Suppose the state legislature grants authority to a city to, say, legalize prostitution and tax it. But then horrific problems ensue and the state decides to rescind the authority, they should be able to do that. No?

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by travis t

ST was created by the state. That's why it is subject to the authority of the state, and in turn to a statewide vote. The state initiative process is intended as a way for voters to basically over-ride the state legislature. It's intended to put state legislative power in the hands of the people.

The assertion that voters statewide have standing to annul or reduce locally approved and collected taxes is political vandalism. The state supreme court has already ruled on this by the way - Timmy uses an artful dodge to try to get around it, but it won't work.

[Seacove]

It was bound to become an issue and it is being suggested that Pierce county get cut out of the light rail project. King county is giving so much to the rest of the state that they are thinking it’s “time to claw some of that money back”.

Per capita, King paid $3,820 in taxes in return for just $2,419 in spending — or a net donation annually of $1,401 by each and every King County resident to the good people of the rest of the state.

Who are totally hacked off anyway. So much so they voted to slash transit and bus projects in Seattle in part out of sheer animus.

Carlyle, who sits on the state Senate’s Ways and Means Committee, says that as a liberal he’s normally fine with the imbalance, as richer counties should support the poorer ones. But now the “longstanding political compact” between west and east, urban and rural is fraying.

“Why send all this money to 33 counties if they’re going to turn around and strip us of our ability to pay for our own projects?” Carlyle said Tuesday.

”Why are we exporting billions of dollars around the state?’ The coming showdown over Seattle’s money

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...eattles-money/

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by homesinseattle

"Seattle and other government agencies will argue that Initiative 976 to cut car-tab taxes violates the state Constitution in several ways, including by involving more than one subject and misleading voters about the true effects of the measure, according to a complaint the city of Seattle, King County, Port of Seattle and several other groups filed Wednesday.

“As with prior initiatives by the same sponsor, I-976 is a poorly drafted hodge-podge that violates multiple provisions of the Constitution,” the groups wrote in their complaint.". Link here: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ty-and-others/

No surprise that King County liberals will not accept the result of a free, democratic election. They have proven that for 3 years now. Perhaps the rest of the state should ship a load of Binkies to Seattle and Olympia.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

No surprise that King County liberals will not accept the result of a free, democratic election. They have proven that for 3 years now. Perhaps the rest of the state should ship a load of Binkies to Seattle and Olympia.

Yeah, for those that actually live in King County, learning that we would have more than enough to find ST3 if we weren’t sending our tax dollars to 33 other counties is eye opening. Best to let the counties fund themselves and call it good. Pierce county getting a half a billion is ridiculous. That needs to stop and they need to be cut out of ST3.

[CrazyDonkey]

https://seattletransitblog.com/2019/...s-after-i-976/ ("Sound Transit maps next steps after I-976")

The Sound Transit Board had its first opportunity to review the results of I-976 at Thursday’s meeting. While expressing confidence they would not be forced to reduce the MVET, and also outlining the litigation strategy they intend to pursue, the Board also heard how an immediate stop to MVET revenues would result in a five year delay to future projects.

Sound Transit’s interpretation, supported by the voter pamphlet language, is that the reduction in future authority applies only to future voter-approved MVETs. The current MVETs remain fully in place as long as bonds secured by those revenues are outstanding. If that view prevails, the only impact of I-976 to Sound Transit would be to curb the available revenue options for an ST4 or subsequent initiatives.

Defeasance is a process roughly equivalent to repaying bonds for the debtor. Instead of paying off the bond debt, Sound Transit would set aside cash or assets in an escrow account sufficient to meet the future repayment schedule. Typically, that means purchasing bonds with a yield that covers repayments on the bonds they have sold. Bond holders would then receive payments from that account on their original schedule. Because the bond liability and escrow assets offset each other, the debt need not be recorded, and the bonds would effectively be wiped from Sound Transit’s books and would no longer protect against I-976 MVET reductions. But defeasance is a more costly and complex financial engineering exercise than simply paying the debt down on schedule. Indeed, part of Sound Transit’s position is that they cannot be required to enter into more expensive debt to defease existing debt.

Lower taxes today also mean higher taxes later as the program is stretched out to meet all spending commitments. The planned rollback of some taxes in the mid-2040s would be delayed 12 years. Taxpayers would end up paying about $25 billion more in total, though again those are nominal dollars rather than real.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by Seacove

Yeah, for those that actually live in King County, learning that we would have more than enough to find ST3 if we weren’t sending our tax dollars to 33 other counties is eye opening. Best to let the counties fund themselves and call it good. Pierce county getting a half a billion is ridiculous. That needs to stop and they need to be cut out of ST3.

What does ST3 have to do with car registration fees? Drivers don't utilize mass transit and should not be the ones funding it. Need more money for MT? Simple solution-raise fares to the point that they fund it-let the users pay their own way. No one hands tax money to drivers for their insurance, their car payments, their gas bill. Let alone their registration, their sales tax or their fuel tax. Why should drivers have to subsidise MT?

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

What does ST3 have to do with car registration fees? Drivers don't utilize mass transit and should not be the ones funding it. Need more money for MT? Simple solution-raise fares to the point that they fund it-let the users pay their own way. No one hands tax money to drivers for their insurance, their car payments, their gas bill. Let alone their registration, their sales tax or their fuel tax. Why should drivers have to subsidise MT?

This is where living in the place in which one is giving opinions on matters. Not even going to bother explaining it to someone who lives in Idaho.

[pnwguy2]

Originally Posted by Seacove

This is where living in the place in which one is giving opinions on matters. Not even going to bother explaining it to someone who lives in Idaho.

Yeah, and you apparently like to degrade other posters who don't agree with you. Idaho = dumb. Eastern Washington = third world country. My gawd you are appallingly ignorant to regional politics. Regional cooperation is important. It isn't Seattle vs. the rest of the region, never has been and never will. But carry on...

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

Yeah, and you apparently like to degrade other posters who don't agree with you. Idaho = dumb. Eastern Washington = third world country. My gawd you are appallingly ignorant to regional politics. But carry on...

Please show where I've said that anywhere. Why would I explain ST3 to someone who doesn't even live in Washington state, much less in the Seattle metro? Why would someone living in Idaho care about ST3 anyway? As for Eastern Washington, they loved voting for Eyman's initiative so they could "stick it to Seattle" which is fine, but how would they feel if King County tells them to pound sand the next time they put their hand out? See, they love taking billions in free money, that's the kind of socialism they can totally get behind. Does that mean they are a third world country? Those are your words. I would phrase it differently and not here.

I love the whole "we're all in this together" now, when it is shown how much money they get from King County. Before it was "Yeah, we don't want to give Seattle any money!" Even when they are short $41 million to fund just two projects for themselves. Where will they get that money? Hope they aren't expecting it from King County.