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Believe it or not, I agree with much of this, even though I realize much of what you are addressing here is pointed at my comments. It becomes difficult to wrap things up in sound bites, I suppose, when people start attacking so many angles in forwarding such ridiculous arguments.
Your points are well taken. I was specifically addressing the idea put forward that because the components that define the standard of living may be more affordable elsewhere it shouldn't necessarily have a bearing on the components that define the standard of living here (at least as it pertains to happiness).
Different standards of living=different priorities in life=different measurements of happiness. I don't miss the home, backyard pool, convertible sports car lifestyle at all standing on the running board of a cable car on Russian Hill. Here, I am inspired in my creative job that now has room for advancement, where there I had maxed out.
People in Texas think taking public transportation is a sign of poverty. I consider it liberation.
It was't really directed at you as much as it seems because I do get your situation is different than mine and others, it's more a response to stuff that's been said for a while now on this forum at times.
A lot of us can and do adjust to what comes with living here, such as smaller, older homes on small lots or in multi-unit buildings. But even when condos and apartments in good/decent areas become fairly unaffordable is when it really starts to wear on you. But you do what you have to do. Me and my wife are likely going to downgrade and move to a cheaper apartment and live in an area that I really don't want to so we can save a buy a place in a better area a few years down the road.
I've notice a lot of negativity about living in the Bay Area by those who lament that it's unaffordable or restrictively Liberal in its politics. But, what about the rest of us? What about those of us who are good at what we do for a living, and as such, came to the Bay Area to find a vibrant job market full of opportunity, expensive yet affordable housing, and quality of life indices that are off the chart?
For instance, I woke up today and felt kind of lazy. I watched the Giants game (10:30 start, because it was an away game), while I ate a sandwich made at a place on my block, which I walked to get. It was grilled Petaluma chicken, avocado, local bacon, etc. on Acme bread. I drank a local IPA with the sandwich. At the end of the game, my wife and I decided to go over to Treasure Island (admittedly random idea) to do some wine tasting-- there are 5-6 good wineries there. It took us 20 minutes to get to the island. We spent nearly two hours tasting wine and chatting with the winemakers who showed us around their property and explained the subtleties of the six wines they were sampling.
We then took in the view from Yerba Buena for awhile and headed back to the City, across the Bay Bridge. There was a good chop on the Bay and a lot of sailboats were out. I had the sunroof open and could smell eucalyptus in the salt air. The fog was pouring over Twin Peaks and wrapping itself around Sutro Tower. Alcatraz was fully socked in, but the sky was clear over the City and the sun was golden. It was picture-perfect, with lots of activity on the street, cable cars clanging, and tourists snapping shots of stuff I take for granted. We went the long way home, up through Chinatown and Nob Hill. Our soundtrack was acoustic singer/songwriters singing the virtues of California. It was impossible to disagree at this point.
Polk street was busy. We went 5MPH all the way from Pacific to Union. Lots of people were dining at sidewalk eateries, shopping at stores, or just walking. We parked in the basement of our building. Walked upstairs and cracked a bottle of old vine Zinfandel we picked up a few weeks ago in the Russian River Valley. We thought it would go well with the leftover Paxti's deep-dish pie with the fresh ricotta we had from last night.
While heating that up, the sun started setting through the fog advancing over the Presidio. The fog horns were already blaring from the Golden Gate Bridge out my open window. The air smelled like a flower shop. I put on some Miles.
Life was good.
Say what you want about how overpriced or crazy Liberal California is. If it suits your place in the world, there's nothing like a California lifestyle. My above description is the kind of thing people would plan for weeks for their vacation. We did it on a whim without even thinking.
Do I miss my 3000 square foot house in Texas? Not in the slightest.
Please tell me more!!!!!!! 😎👍 Now I really want to see the Bay Area!
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,140,361 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcave360
Please tell me more!!!!!!! ���� Now I really want to see the Bay Area!
If you are interested in wine and food, head up to Wine Country. Sonoma Valley and Napa Valley are, of course, the famous general regions and there are sub-regions adjacent to, and within them. They are also closest to SF--about 45-50 minutes north, over the Golden Gate Bridge. The drive up is scenic, though, and can be interrupted with a stop at Muir Woods and/or Mt. Tamalpais for incredible hiking, bay views and a dense redwood forest. You can lose yourself for hours on the hiking trails and its a great taste of what makes this part of California unique.
Napa Valley gets a bit of a bad rap for being touristy. It is crowded and highly developed, but the most ambitious wineries, world-renowned restaurants, quaint towns with art galleries, shopping, antiques, etc. are up and down the valley. Find the off-beat wineries for the best experience. The popular ones are always too busy and and not as much fun.
There are also fun things like balloon rides from Yountville to Napa, a wine train that runs the length of the valley with stops for tastings, limo tours, performance halls for live music in Napa, and more.
Sonoma is the laid-back, mellow cousin. It is more rural and runs at a slower pace. There are many great restaurants that lack the pretense of Napa in Sonoma, Glen Ellen, and up the valley. Most of the vineyards are smaller and less trafficked, too. To me, this is "real Wine Country" and I like the vibe much better for a day trip. Napa Valley is better designed for a longer stay.
At the top of the Sonoma Valley and the beginning of the Russian River Valley is Healdsburg. It's my favorite town of all. There are many tasting rooms, galleries, restaurants and shops all around the square. You can walk all day long and never hit it all. The scenery is awesome. The weather is warm. It's a kind of hybrid of Napa and Sonoma, if you take the time to really take in the atmosphere.
There are few agricultural regions in the world with as much allure as Wine Country. Plenty of people visit and hardly set foot in San Francisco. It is an amazing perk having it so close. It influences our culinary scene. The wine culture permeates the City, too. It, with Berkeley and the City itself, drive the locavore mentality I was talking about earlier. Sure, there is local food everywhere you go, but not to this amazing extreme. It is one of the greatest aspects of living in and visiting this area.
If you are interested in wine and food, head up to Wine Country. Sonoma Valley and Napa Valley are, of course, the famous general regions and there are sub-regions adjacent to, and within them. They are also closest to SF--about 45-50 minutes north, over the Golden Gate Bridge. The drive up is scenic, though, and can be interrupted with a stop at Muir Woods and/or Mt. Tamalpais for incredible hiking, bay views and a dense redwood forest. You can lose yourself for hours on the hiking trails and its a great taste of what makes this part of California unique.
Napa Valley gets a bit of a bad rap for being touristy. It is crowded and highly developed, but the most ambitious wineries, world-renowned restaurants, quaint towns with art galleries, shopping, antiques, etc. are up and down the valley. Find the off-beat wineries for the best experience. The popular ones are always too busy and and not as much fun.
There are also fun things like balloon rides from Yountville to Napa, a wine train that runs the length of the valley with stops for tastings, limo tours, performance halls for live music in Napa, and more.
Sonoma is the laid-back, mellow cousin. It is more rural and runs at a slower pace. There are many great restaurants that lack the pretense of Napa in Sonoma, Glen Ellen, and up the valley. Most of the vineyards are smaller and less trafficked, too. To me, this is "real Wine Country" and I like the vibe much better for a day trip. Napa Valley is better designed for a longer stay.
At the top of the Sonoma Valley and the beginning of the Russian River Valley is Healdsburg. It's my favorite town of all. There are many tasting rooms, galleries, restaurants and shops all around the square. You can walk all day long and never hit it all. The scenery is awesome. The weather is warm. It's a kind of hybrid of Napa and Sonoma, if you take the time to really take in the atmosphere.
There are few agricultural regions in the world with as much allure as Wine Country. Plenty of people visit and hardly set foot in San Francisco. It is an amazing perk having it so close. It influences our culinary scene. The wine culture permeates the City, too. It, with Berkeley and the City itself, drive the locavore mentality I was talking about earlier. Sure, there is local food everywhere you go, but not to this amazing extreme. It is one of the greatest aspects of living in and visiting this area.
Will definitely keep this in mind! I'm thinking about going back to Cali for vacation on around my 22nd bday this late September but I'm trying to choose between going back to LA and checking out SD at the same time (possibly even do a side trip to Vegas) or go to the Bay Area. I'm leaning towards the Bay, but it's still a tough choice (I also have a few family members on my stepdad's side living in Sacramento too).
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,454,568 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcave360
Will definitely keep this in mind! I'm thinking about going back to Cali for vacation on around my 22nd bday this late September but I'm trying to choose between going back to LA and checking out SD at the same time (possibly even do a side trip to Vegas) or go to the Bay Area. I'm leaning towards the Bay, but it's still a tough choice (I also have a few family members on my stepdad's side living in Sacramento too).
You can't go wrong with any of those cities. If you do try wine country it is best to make a reservation at a winery for a wine and food pairing. These are not costly and are a lot of fun!
I have a classmate that lives in wine country and she knows that place inside out.
Several of us are attending a wine paring in a few weeks but had to make our reservations way in advance.
I can get a list of the best places to do the food and wine pairings. She told us about a nice winery that has the food and wine pairing right out in the middle of the vineyards. If you decide to try wine country I can post a list of the best places to visit.
Keep in mind that all of the wineries close down around 5:00 so it is best to get an early start.
If you are interested in wine and food, head up to Wine Country. Sonoma Valley and Napa Valley are, of course, the famous general regions and there are sub-regions adjacent to, and within them. They are also closest to SF--about 45-50 minutes north, over the Golden Gate Bridge. The drive up is scenic, though, and can be interrupted with a stop at Muir Woods and/or Mt. Tamalpais for incredible hiking, bay views and a dense redwood forest. You can lose yourself for hours on the hiking trails and its a great taste of what makes this part of California unique.
Napa Valley gets a bit of a bad rap for being touristy. It is crowded and highly developed, but the most ambitious wineries, world-renowned restaurants, quaint towns with art galleries, shopping, antiques, etc. are up and down the valley. Find the off-beat wineries for the best experience. The popular ones are always too busy and and not as much fun.
There are also fun things like balloon rides from Yountville to Napa, a wine train that runs the length of the valley with stops for tastings, limo tours, performance halls for live music in Napa, and more.
Sonoma is the laid-back, mellow cousin. It is more rural and runs at a slower pace. There are many great restaurants that lack the pretense of Napa in Sonoma, Glen Ellen, and up the valley. Most of the vineyards are smaller and less trafficked, too. To me, this is "real Wine Country" and I like the vibe much better for a day trip. Napa Valley is better designed for a longer stay.
At the top of the Sonoma Valley and the beginning of the Russian River Valley is Healdsburg. It's my favorite town of all. There are many tasting rooms, galleries, restaurants and shops all around the square. You can walk all day long and never hit it all. The scenery is awesome. The weather is warm. It's a kind of hybrid of Napa and Sonoma, if you take the time to really take in the atmosphere.
There are few agricultural regions in the world with as much allure as Wine Country. Plenty of people visit and hardly set foot in San Francisco. It is an amazing perk having it so close. It influences our culinary scene. The wine culture permeates the City, too. It, with Berkeley and the City itself, drive the locavore mentality I was talking about earlier. Sure, there is local food everywhere you go, but not to this amazing extreme. It is one of the greatest aspects of living in and visiting this area.
Not to inject myself into all this "banter" but really---STOP!! Not just you---the other posters need to quit--it's ridiculous and childish and everyone has their own opinions---positive OR negative. There is nothing to be gained from this thread anymore for people just looking for information . Anyone that is actually interested in the Bay Area has stopped reading by now. It's just pro SF vs anti- SF...stoopid.
It's great that you love it here and are living a great life here!! You cannot expect everyone that moves here from somewhere else to love it....No biggie---this pathetic thread has gone on for far too long. It's like a gang warfare thing---really childish and pathetic. You cannot convince people that their lives are supposed to be exactly like yours. (I'm actually a native, so I can step back and accept that it's not everyone's cup of tea). It's not a cup of tea for most of my childhood friends, either---it's LIFE.
But the back and forth of people that hate it and the people that love it has grown extremely tiresome and inane.
Drop your over the top praise---it's merely your personal experience. I know a lot of LOCALS that struggle to raise kids and/or have moved out once they have kids and really understand all the cra* it entails.
It's not Disneyland---I'm truly glad that you're loving it right now and hope you continue to do so for as long as possible...but you must understand that for a lot of people it's a culture/paycheck shock and for a lot of long time residents/locals, it's become the Disneyland for the 20-30 something single crowd.
You have to understand what it used to be like to truly understand where (some) people might be coming from or understand where it might be a complete shock.
Please don't take this personally---time to move away from the board and get out to enjoy what you say you already love. Arguing back and forth with anonymous posters with ideas that are different than your own is a complete waste of time.....and VICE VERSA! Opinions. Accept and move on.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,140,361 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcave360
Will definitely keep this in mind! I'm thinking about going back to Cali for vacation on around my 22nd bday this late September but I'm trying to choose between going back to LA and checking out SD at the same time (possibly even do a side trip to Vegas) or go to the Bay Area. I'm leaning towards the Bay, but it's still a tough choice (I also have a few family members on my stepdad's side living in Sacramento too).
I don't think you'd go wrong in any of those scenarios. For a 22nd, though, the SoCal/Vegas thing might be just the ticket.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,140,361 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by clongirl
Not to inject myself into all this "banter" but really---STOP!! Not just you---the other posters need to quit--it's ridiculous and childish and everyone has their own opinions---positive OR negative. There is nothing to be gained from this thread anymore for people just looking for information . Anyone that is actually interested in the Bay Area has stopped reading by now. It's just pro SF vs anti- SF...stoopid.
It's great that you love it here and are living a great life here!! You cannot expect everyone that moves here from somewhere else to love it....No biggie---this pathetic thread has gone on for far too long. It's like a gang warfare thing---really childish and pathetic. You cannot convince people that their lives are supposed to be exactly like yours. (I'm actually a native, so I can step back and accept that it's not everyone's cup of tea). It's not a cup of tea for most of my childhood friends, either---it's LIFE.
But the back and forth of people that hate it and the people that love it has grown extremely tiresome and inane.
Drop your over the top praise---it's merely your personal experience. I know a lot of LOCALS that struggle to raise kids and/or have moved out once they have kids and really understand all the cra* it entails.
It's not Disneyland---I'm truly glad that you're loving it right now and hope you continue to do so for as long as possible...but you must understand that for a lot of people it's a culture/paycheck shock and for a lot of long time residents/locals, it's become the Disneyland for the 20-30 something single crowd.
You have to understand what it used to be like to truly understand where (some) people might be coming from or understand where it might be a complete shock.
Please don't take this personally---time to move away from the board and get out to enjoy what you say you already love. Arguing back and forth with anonymous posters with ideas that are different than your own is a complete waste of time.....and VICE VERSA! Opinions. Accept and move on.
I get it. Moving on already happened. Not taking anything personally.
My thread, though. I started it to say some things I like about the Bay Area. I didn't try to convince anyone else to share in my viewpoints. I did find it curious that my choice of sandwich got me labeled as "classist" and admittedly for sport, I played it a bit.
All the talk of struggling and poverty was the fabrication of a troll. Of course I know that it exists. I understand the problems that come with income inequality. All I did was offer one counterpoint to that, with no judgment or inferences. I respectfully debated a couple of posters who politely called me out as you have.
Moderator cut: personal-off topic
As for going out--right now I'm watching the Giants.
Because some of us want more stability for ourselves and family. We don't want to deal with constantly rising rents, landlords, and having to move, especially when you have kids. Is that really that hard to understand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
Unfortunately real estate is still the primary american wealth generator in this country. Considering the current workforce doesn't have stuff like guaranteed pensions to fall back on, it still looks like a fairly prudent decision.
This places have much better social safety nets than we do for all life stages. Not only do we not bother to help the poor, parents, retired people or sick people, we don't have the will or desire to take care of our citizens on most levels. From health care to education to basic mental health with work life balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life
If you want to be able to retire owning a home is a very very good decision and should be part of a life plan.
Some people cannot look that far ahead and perpetually live in the moment. Then we find them at 65 still working so they can pay rent or retiring and moving out of state where rent is cheaper and taxes are lower. The people that made the sacrifices (living in less desirable areas, commuting further, etc) throughout their working life to make mortgage payments instead of rent payments can retire younger and still afford to live in the same area.
All three of you are making some good points at times. It is an interesting discussion. But all three of you missed my point and the point of the links I provided. Real estate is NOT the only way to develop wealth and stability and security for yourselves and your families. There are many ways to invest in your future. Your own businesses, other businesses / corporations, stocks, currency trading, precious metals, art and other collectables even, and plenty more.
Rising rents and such are a function of market rates. Your investments should be able to keep pace, if not exceed, the real estate market.
You are all expressing the American conditioning that home ownership is THE benchmark for "success". That is a psychological condition. I can buy a house in San Francisco (and I only just retired from a modestly paid blue-collar career) - but I have never wanted to own a house. I invested the money most folks pay in principal - and paid again in interest, roughly doubling the cost of their homes. I NEVER paid a dime in interest. My total investment went directly to equity value (precious metals mostly in my case).
You want to measure life by home ownership - fine. No problem. If you buy by mortgage, you pay half again to double the purchase for the satisfaction of living in it. Okay. But it certainly isn't the ONLY way to get ahead financially and prepare for a good retirement. Nor is it the ONLY way to live comfortably.
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