Kid's College Education (50+, meal plan, separate, milk)

[ChristineVA]

Originally Posted by otowi

Just a little perspective - In 1979, it took a student working at minimum wage ($2.90 per hour) 385.5 hours to pay off one year of the average college tuition.
If a student worked a full-time job (40 hours a week) for an entire summer, he or she would have worked 480 hours.
Each year, the average student spends 1,020 hours studying and in class.
The average full-time American employee works 2,000 hours a year.
Today, it takes 2,229 hours working at the federal minimum wage ($7.25 per hour) to pay off one year of the average college tuition.
To be both enrolled in school full-time and work enough at $7.25 per hour to pay off one year of the average college tuition would take a student 3,249 hours.
The average American is awake for 6,278 hours each year.
It would take 7,049 hours to work off one-year’s tuition at Columbia at $7.25 per hour. There are 8,760 hours in a year.

Thanks for those numbers. It clearly states what I can never articulate.

I was in a small state public college in 1981. For half of my senior year and full-time in the summer, I worked at our local dry cleaners at $3.90 per hour (or thereabouts--it was the minimum wage). I had enough money to cover my tuition costs and books. My parents paid for the dorm and food.

My son worked through most of his senior year for $9.50 and hour (part time). He managed to scrape together about $4,000. His state tuition was around $5,200. Then there were the engineering fees, books, supplies for his major, dorm, food....could not have done that on his own.

[PriscillaVanilla]

Originally Posted by Williepaws

I know of financial planners that have told their clients to saddle their kids with college loans and put their money into the parents retirement accounts instead. And these were parents who could afford to pay for their kids education. Height of selfishness to me.

I've noticed the same thing about financial planners and advisers. They seem to be against 529 plans in particular. I found out it's because financial advisers can't churn the money and earn commissions in 529 plans, the way they can other accounts. So always be wary of "financial advice". I stopped working with them because every single financial adviser/planner wanted me to break open my 529 plans and put the money elsewhere.

The costs of college are skyrocketing.

[C24L]

Originally Posted by randomparent

So it's no-go for a kid with talent and drive who is preparing for law school? Interesting. Also, if this is how you feel, you might want to do some research on which STEM degrees are worth it and which are not. For example, the average ROI on a biology degree is pretty pathetic, but it's still under the STEM umbrella. As for liberal arts degrees, Human Resources and Economics graduates from respected schools/programs are typically paid pretty well.

well i would prolly pay for law school.I would do research with them on which STEM degrees make sense.

[MI-Roger]

Originally Posted by C24L

well i would prolly pay for law school.I would do research with them on which STEM degrees make sense.

Do research on the salaries paid to recent law school graduates. Law Schools are infamous for publishing average salary numbers exceeding $150k per year during the Recession years, when in reality most recent Law School grads of that era were making under $50K.


If someone truly wants to be a Lawyer they should investigate lesser known schools as well as the Top 10 or 15 Schools. I know two students who were offered full-rides to University of Toledo Law School.


No point in spending money on a STEM degree if their heart is not in those fields. I love Math, Science, and Engineering but many others do not. Money cannot compensate for zero interest in a job.

[bobspez]

None of what you say applies to living at home and commuting to public colleges. That would turn all your conclusions upside down. No massive debt upon graduation, no working more hours than humanly possible. I'll agree with your average student spending 1020 hours studying and in class. For a 36 week school year that comes to 28 hours a week. That leaves the option of working from 12 to 20 hours a week after class and on weekends during the school year and 40 hours a week during summer vacation.

Your calculations put an average tuition at $16,000 per year. But the public college I graduated from (U.C.L.A.) now has a tuition of $12,700 a year and the City College of New York, where my son graduated now has a tuition of $6,700 a year.

Scenario 1. Student works 20 hours a week for 36 weeks during the school year and 40 hours a week for 12 weeks during the summer.

Figuring 20 hours a week of work for 36 weeks a year + 40 hours a week for 12 weeks a year (allowing 4 weeks off for holidays/finals) a college student can work 1200 hours a year, yielding $8700 a year, more than paying for tuition at C.C.N.Y and owing a balance of $4000 a year at U.C.L.A. So the U.C.L.A. student graduates with a total 4 year student loan debt of $16,000, or a 10 year repayment at an interest rate of 6%, $178 a month ($2,136 a year), and the C.C.N.Y. student has no college debt.

Scenario 2. Student works 12 hours a week for 36 weeks during the school year and 40 hours a week for 12 weeks during the summer.

The student works a total of 912 hours a year, yielding $6612 a year. This pays for all but $88 a year of the C.C.N.Y. student's tuition, and leaves a balance of $6088 a year to be paid with student loans for the U.C.L.A. student. So the U.C.L.A. graduate has 10 years to pay off his 4 year loan balance of $24,350, or a 10 year repayment at a 6% interest rate, payments of $270 a month ($3,240 a year). And the C.C.N.Y. student still graduates essentially debt free.

I was the first in my family to graduate college, and my son followed suit.

Originally Posted by otowi

Just a little perspective - In 1979, it took a student working at minimum wage ($2.90 per hour) 385.5 hours to pay off one year of the average college tuition.
If a student worked a full-time job (40 hours a week) for an entire summer, he or she would have worked 480 hours.
Each year, the average student spends 1,020 hours studying and in class.
The average full-time American employee works 2,000 hours a year.
Today, it takes 2,229 hours working at the federal minimum wage ($7.25 per hour) to pay off one year of the average college tuition.
To be both enrolled in school full-time and work enough at $7.25 per hour to pay off one year of the average college tuition would take a student 3,249 hours.
The average American is awake for 6,278 hours each year.
It would take 7,049 hours to work off one-year’s tuition at Columbia at $7.25 per hour. There are 8,760 hours in a year.

I don't have a problem with parents expecting kids to contribute to their college education, but even at "modestly-priced" schools these days working one's way through is in most cases no longer a human possibility in a reasonable number of years. I personally feel that if parents can help with college costs, they should. But not everyone can, unfortunately. And I think it is reasonable to put limits and say no to higher-priced schools, things that are not essential like trip experiences, etc. But we do have to consider that college debt is a huge factor why a whole generation or two or three of American young people are having trouble getting into adulthood. They graduate with a degree but most do not instantly find high-paying employment - most have to work their way up just like many did in the past, but they're also often saddled with debt the size of their parents' mortgage payment, preventing them from pursuing home ownership and making it very hard to save for retirement when they are not living with mom and dad because they're paying a mortgage worth of loan debt plus the same again for their rent, etc. They are set up to fail, and it is not all their fault or a case of all of them making poor choices. The system is really hard now.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by otowi

Just a little perspective - In 1979, it took a student working at minimum wage ($2.90 per hour) 385.5 hours to pay off one year of the average college tuition.
...
Today, it takes 2,229 hours working at the federal minimum wage ($7.25 per hour) to pay off one year of the average college tuition.....

Yes, the tuition increases have been out of control (I blame this partly on 'entitlements' (such as parents paying those increased costs without rebelling... If students were paying the increased... they would have rebelled 20 yrs ago)


~$15k takehome as a FT 'entry' level worker at Federal wage.. 2x that in states with higher minimum wages (such as WA (Seattle specific) , benefit = NO Income tax state!)

Options:

1. Entry level employment is for HS kids, not college kids. (learn a skill while in HS!, take on a 'career / higher paying job while in College)
2. Get a job that reimburses for EDU (which will not be an entry level job, AND you will graduate with 4+ yrs RELEVANT EXPERIENCE) Us employers would benefit from that, as will the graduate's pay!
3. Start a business and have employees working for YOU (while you are attending college) Very common with middle class+ / and homeschooled kids)
4. Buy / have your parent help you buy a cash flowing rental prop while you are in college (GREAT income + good training)
5. Choose a more reasonably priced college (there are plenty... check out WY! or AL...) I prefer to hire their STEM grads, very competent and great work ethic / contribution to employers and society !!
6. Do a 'deferred tuition' program with the U
7. Sign up for a 'tuition-pay-back' career post grad. (My MD claimed he received MORE valuable training in his 'pay-back' career than he did at Med School )
8. Military
9. Overseas / residency EDU
   
10. Many, many other creative options than sequestered to a 'entry level job' (which is what we are purposing to AVOID by going to college...)

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by Schuttzie

You did an awesome job with your children and I'm sure very proud of them. Well done!

Nothing is perfect, each situation deserves your best effort. (we learn from each effort +/-)

just saying...

Contrary to OP premise; "Pay for your kid's college".

There are a WHOLE lot of other MORE EFFECTIVE options that millions of us use to 'prepare' our kids to be 'life-long contributors'

Throwing MONEY at kids is very simple, very common, very ineffective.

If you have the time... (and many of you do as grandparents). Throw yourself / time / skills / learning's / experiences at your kids. Money... is not so 'impressionable' of a solution.

Had it not been for my grandparents, I would have made it to age 12. (that is 'for-real'). Life was hxll at 'home'.

[C24L]

Originally Posted by MI-Roger

Do research on the salaries paid to recent law school graduates. Law Schools are infamous for publishing average salary numbers exceeding $150k per year during the Recession years, when in reality most recent Law School grads of that era were making under $50K.


If someone truly wants to be a Lawyer they should investigate lesser known schools as well as the Top 10 or 15 Schools. I know two students who were offered full-rides to University of Toledo Law School.


No point in spending money on a STEM degree if their heart is not in those fields. I love Math, Science, and Engineering but many others do not. Money cannot compensate for zero interest in a job.

Okay thanks for the tip and advice on law schools.

[FiveLoaves]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

Contrary to OP premise; "Pay for your kid's college".

There are a WHOLE lot of other MORE EFFECTIVE options that millions of us use to 'prepare' our kids to be 'life-long contributors'

Throwing MONEY at kids is very simple, very common, very ineffective.

While all you Math Majors are going thru your justifications -- just tell me what $250 per month for 17 years compounded at 3% will get you.

My Original Opinion still stands. If you haven't at least accounted for your Kid's College -- you're not ready for Early Retirement. You can instill in them an appreciation without saddling them with debt.

It's possible to both fund a 401K and save for Higher Education.

[bobspez]

Guess you never took math and/or can't locate a compound interest calculator on the internet. It comes to $67K. Chickenfeed if your kids are going away to college. And you paid for two girls college tuition, room and board and extras for $67K? That sounds like one year at a private college. Your opinion still makes no sense.
I accounted for my three children's college educations. I agreed to pay their first semester at a public university if they lived at home and commuted. Then they were on their own. One graduated in 4 years, the other two weren't motivated enough to get their degrees. It cost me less than $5K total. I retired at 58-1/2. I went back to work a year and a half later out of boredom, and retired for good at 62, the month I got my first SS check.
If you are happy you paid for your children's education, good for you. We all spend our money on what we think is best. I'm not telling you you were wrong to spend your money as you saw fit. But personally I think funding their own education is an education in itself, probably as or more important than what is learned in class. Your telling others how to spend their money is just absurd.

Originally Posted by FiveLoaves

While all you Math Majors are going thru your justifications -- just tell me what $250 per month for 17 years compounded at 3% will get you.

My Original Opinion still stands. If you haven't at least accounted for your Kid's College -- you're not ready for Early Retirement. You can instill in them an appreciation without saddling them with debt.

It's possible to both fund a 401K and save for Higher Education.