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Old 04-30-2010, 08:44 AM
 
7,747 posts, read 12,709,015 times
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[quote=Nea1;13972969]
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post

Because the scientist have evidence and testing to back it up, things we can see, examine and investigate. Most of these so called discoveries are vague with little to no real evidence and are sketchy at best. Usually a group with an agenda to further and then of course people come out with evidence to debunk it.
Evidence and testing to back it up... Evidence you have personally seen? I swear I have never actually seen any evidence (with my own eyes now) that scientist have newly discovered. It's also very vague in itself to describe what they have discovered. Have you ever examined and investigated these discoveries for yourself? I haven't. I just take their word for it like everyone else in the world does. Seriously though, I have nothing but good to say about scientist and the things they've discovered and the doors they have opened for mankind. However, you can not put down and dismiss someone else's religious beliefs as untrue and false because it's not what you believe and doesn't fit in to what you believe.

 
Old 04-30-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Colorado
9,986 posts, read 18,732,054 times
Reputation: 2179
[quote=allenk893;13973052]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post

Evidence and testing to back it up... Evidence you have personally seen? I swear I have never actually seen any evidence (with my own eyes now) that scientist have newly discovered. It's also very vague in itself to describe what they have discovered. Have you ever examined and investigated these discoveries for yourself? I haven't. I just take their word for it like everyone else in the world does. Seriously though, I have nothing but good to say about scientist and the things they've discovered and the doors they have opened for mankind. However, you can not put down and dismiss someone else's religious beliefs as untrue and false because it's not what you believe and doesn't fit in to what you believe.
I went to the Field Museum in Chicago last year, EVIDENCE out the wazoo. All the newly discovered, well when it has been subject to real peer review and tests and it is not like pulling teeth to get evidence out of them BTW ( unlike others)I find it much easier to believe, and the fact that soon it will be at a museum for me to examine myself.
And I dont put down others beliefs, just them blindly trying to prove it with all these lame " findings".
 
Old 04-30-2010, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,960,394 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post

I don't understand it.......

......... as soon as something like this comes about with religious background, there's always someone screaming "It's a fake!"?
Decades of experience dealing with religious fakes perhaps??
 
Old 04-30-2010, 10:43 AM
 
Location: San Diego
494 posts, read 894,101 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
Ok that is your own opinion. There are more than 2.1 billion Christians in the world today. Do you honestly think we are all simply following some superstitious belief and hoaxes? I don't think so. I respect science but that doesn't mean I think it is all knowing and is always right and is the only way.
So if you develop cancer or some other terminal illness, you'd be fine with going to the feces-smearing primitive superstitious guy for a cure instead of a highly trained oncological expert. Because, you know he has FAITH in his methods so that of course makes them true and effective and beyond reproach. Ad populum faith means he can't be wrong. Gotcha.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,647 posts, read 37,386,698 times
Reputation: 14111
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
No he's a making a mockery out of something people take seriously. I could say the same thing about finding Alien life and the countless "abductions" stories that people have told. Wasn't there some kind of satellite by a team of scientist waiting for an extraterrestrial radio signal from space? I bet some folk would be ALL OVER THAT as soon as they release an article saying they heard something.
Yeah, but they have never said that they heard something when they didn't. How many times and in how many places has the ark been supposedly "discovered".....So far every single one has turned out to be a hoax of course, and I'm sure the frauds will continue....I'll wager that this latest "expedition" will soon have yet another book on the market to sell to the gullible....There is no short supply of those.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 12:37 PM
 
7,747 posts, read 12,709,015 times
Reputation: 12491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Occam's Bikini Wax View Post
So if you develop cancer or some other terminal illness, you'd be fine with going to the feces-smearing primitive superstitious guy for a cure instead of a highly trained oncological expert. Because, you know he has FAITH in his methods so that of course makes them true and effective and beyond reproach. Ad populum faith means he can't be wrong. Gotcha.
WTH?! Ok weirdness with the feces crap. I have not now or ever tried to cure myself by going to a priest or church and trying to do that whole ritual thing. I have always visited the doctors no matter what or how bad my injury was. In my belief and opinion, God made people. And he also gave them the education to medicate as well. It's up to us to go and get that help! The only thing is I would pray to stay alive when I get whatever medication or surgery I get!
 
Old 04-30-2010, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,496 posts, read 12,986,670 times
Reputation: 3767
What seems to have been so obviously missed by many in this latest "finding" is that it's not a new or recent expedition. This is but a rehash of the two-year old trip up there, complete with the same old photos, and the same wild outlandish claims. So... is that all it takes to convince those who desperately want to believe?

I believe I've answered my own question, actually. Of course that's all it takes!
________________________________

Just remember now: the original video documentation shows nothing more than a bunch of folks getting onto and out of of a tour bus, some shots of them trekking up the hills, an out-of-focus shot of an icy ledge with some protruding wooden beams, and some shots inside an ice cave, with some old pieces of assembled wood.

Then, the accompanying still pics show nothing more than the inside of a wooden shed, complete with cobwebs; spiders at the 15,000 foot elevation level in an ice cave? What are those webs set to catch, pray tell? The local grasshopper population?

Finally, we have the sworn testimony of the team archeologist whose name was liberally used to validate and market this study, but he now claims to have been duped out of $100,000 of investment money, ultimately never used for this work nor refunded. He also notes that he was eventually told that the wood parts were lugged up there by hired locals, and set up as an obvious deception. As well, the so-called credible Chinese University (unidentified) does not even exist, and therefore did not ever produce the promised report on their analysis of this wood. Not that this would confirm that it's The Ark, just that it's wood of such and such an age. But anyhow, now we're told that the wood was Carbon-dated in an Iranian lab. So which is it? Is the truth that hard to tell here? Apparently.

All of this is supposed to be ignored by us, to be seen as but yet another attempt by "science" to discredit a valid, credible find.

LOL.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 01:23 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,517,762 times
Reputation: 911
*sigh*
Let's end this.

The Earth is older than 6,000 (or 13,000) years old. It's 4.55 billion at our closest measurements, and that continues to get better refined. We measure meteorites that have landed on Earth, because they formed the same time that the Earth did, but were not subject to constant geological reformations.

The Ark as described in Genesis would be impossible to build. The largest wooden ship ever built, the Wyoming, was 330 feet long--and it sunk. Even with the modern technology of the early 1900's, the boat would twist and flex in the seas, taking on water. A 450 foot long beat wouldn't stand a chance.
None of the animals would have been able to fit on the Ark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_%28…
The volume of the Ark would amount to some 1518750 cubic feet. That isn't 569 Boxcars though as proposed by a certain prominent creationist website.
Could Noah's Ark Hold all the Animals? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
It's only about 230 boxcars.
A Boxcar.
http://www.freefoto.com/images/25/24/25_…
Typical volume of a Boxcar, about 5200 - 6600 feet cube.
http://www.csx.com/?fuseaction=customers…
Volume of Creationist Boxcars? ~2669 Feet cube, according to CARM.
http://www.carm.org/questions/about-bibl…

I could not find any boxcars this size. This is two to three times smaller than typical boxcars. Obviously the reason they use the word boxcar is because people imagine the above CSX size boxcar, and imagine some 570 of those.

There are millions of species of organisms on Earth, mostly insects (about 90%).
Insect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are over 5000 mammals alone, not including extinct ones. 10,000 living species of bird, 8900 of reptiles, 6200 amphibians, 30,000 fish, half of which are *freshwater* fish which cannot survive in a salt-water environment.

So, not only do you have to fit two of all these animals onboard the Ark, you have to provide both food & water. The first casualty of floods is drinking water. The oceans flooding the Earth would turn the entire flood into a saline wasteland.

According to Carm, we have animals the size of sheep. Even if animals are roughly the same size as sheep, you're packing 240 sheep (again, according to CARM) into a boxcar the size of your bedroom, and then you're stacking these micro boxcars ontop of each other (notice how surface area is conveniently left out of Creationist equations). No sane person would subject animals to either of these conditions. The containers on bottom would be centers of disgust and disease. Feces everywhere. You would have a tremendous amount of death from the disease.

These animals alone would take up *far* more than 1\3 of the space. CARM reports about 60% of the space. They are using 1\3 size boxcars and fitting in a full-size boxcar worth of sheep into them. That alone puts their numbers at 180% of space. They don't include fish either (which they need to), or extinct animals, which there are a lot, nor water!

The Ark simply isn't large enough to hold all the animals of the Earth, nor the means to maintain them. A wooden boat could not be built to those specifications either.

Considering average age of a person at that time was about 30 years of age, you're talking several generations of people to build that. Noah wasn't told to build it, but Noah's great great great great great grandfather was. He inherited a nearly finished ship.

We also would have to ask how exactly all those animals traveled from across the world to meet in the middle east. The current continents formed long before Noah's time. The only possible way for those animals to cross would be through the Alaskan-Russian ice-bridge, which is unpredictable and sporadic. You're talking tropical animals waiting in the dead of winter to cross that. Would. Not. Happen. They would all die by then.

Which of course, means what happened to all these creatures that require specialized habitats to begin with?

Unless you want to claim that the Ark only took "kinds" of animals, which is an ambiguous term that can mean anything from species, to genus, to family, there is no point bothering with it. The higher up you go on the taxonomic tree, the more you have to accept evolution as fact.

Non of this matters anyway, because the flood is a physical impossibility.

For that, I'll let Thunderf00t take it away.

YouTube - Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 3).

Long story short, we wouldn't be here if Noah's Flood happened.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,331 posts, read 5,983,671 times
Reputation: 2082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
*sigh*
Let's end this.
That's all fine and good, but you are forgetting one thing: Magic.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,137 posts, read 22,930,895 times
Reputation: 14117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
That's all fine and good, but you are forgetting one thing: Magic.
Damn! Science looses every time because of that 800 lb inflatable gorilla.
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