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Yeah, I think what we're experiencing is a redefining of God from some "other" to be worshipped and anthropomorphized to an embodiment within all life.
If you take the word "God" and replace it with "Life" in texts, you begin to see this power in action.
One of these jars has an invisible man in it, can you tell me which one does? Is it reasonable to assume that because they all weigh exactly the same, and nothing is seen inside them, there is no little man in there *until proven*?
Or I could show just one jar, and claim that it's full of invisible beer. Just because you can't taste it, smell it, weigh it or see it only means that it has the properties of being unobservable. Is it reasonable to take the claim as possible or probable?
Some like to play the semantics game and "prove" god by redefining it to something already observable. There is an infinite number of ways to define God, just as there is an infinite number of ways to describe the clothes on the little man in the jar above.
But when you include the unobservable/supernatural in your definition of God, you are making a claim that needs support before it can have credibility. If you have had a 'personal experience' that made you believe, then that is only good enough "proof" for you. We are not unreasonable to assume the pink elephant you saw was not really there.
This statement is flawed in that a invisible man would be bound by the laws of physics and this reality. I believe GOD is a concept that exist on a different level of reality which we do not have the ability to observe as of yet.
I believe that if GOD does exist in the "true" supernatural sense then it must be eminent only on a higher plane of existince. This view is supported by Brane Cosmology, and it also supports the Gnostic view that this universe is small compared to the fullness of the plane of GOD (Pleroma) Brane cosmology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now, what is in higher dimensional space? No one knows. We most likely will never be able to see higher dimensional space or enter it (they can't even do that on Star Trek) Hence, using the famous model of Schodinger's cat, that which cannot be effectively proven or disproven must exist in a superposition of both truth and falsehood.
A invisible man goes against the laws of physics, and hence, it is proven false. My concept of GOD as existing on another plane of existince which has limited ability to interract with this plane, just as gravity does in Brane Cosmology, since it is located in the High Dimensional space, seems to fit into an already established scientific theory.
GOD, along with Brane Cosmology, String theory, The Drake equation, etc are all theories which cannot be proven or disproven and hence, like Shrodinger's cat, they all exist in a superposition of truth and falsehood until they can be observed. So, for now, and the foreseeable future, the question of "does GOD exist or is it just a fairy tale?" has only one acceptable answer: YES
However, because my religion works for me and makes me happy the question is irrelevant. Be it really a deity or just a placebo effect, it gets results with none of the issues that come up with "traditional religions" and hence, it works. So, logically, I see no reason to stop practcing my religion.
This statement is flawed in that a invisible man would be bound by the laws of physics and this reality. I believe GOD is a concept that exist on a different level of reality which we do not have the ability to observe as of yet.
I believe that if GOD does exist in the "true" supernatural sense then it must be eminent only on a higher plane of existince. This view is supported by Brane Cosmology, and it also supports the Gnostic view that this universe is small compared to the fullness of the plane of GOD (Pleroma) Brane cosmology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now, what is in higher dimensional space? No one knows. We most likely will never be able to see higher dimensional space or enter it (they can't even do that on Star Trek) Hence, using the famous model of Schodinger's cat, that which cannot be effectively proven or disproven must exist in a superposition of both truth and falsehood.
A invisible man goes against the laws of physics, and hence, it is proven false. My concept of GOD as existing on another plane of existince which has limited ability to interract with this plane, just as gravity does in Brane Cosmology, since it is located in the High Dimensional space, seems to fit into an already established scientific theory.
GOD, along with Brane Cosmology, String theory, The Drake equation, etc are all theories which cannot be proven or disproven and hence, like Shrodinger's cat, they all exist in a superposition of truth and falsehood until they can be observed. So, for now, and the foreseeable future, the question of "does GOD exist or is it just a fairy tale?" has only one acceptable answer: YES
However, because my religion works for me and makes me happy the question is irrelevant. Be it really a deity or just a placebo effect, it gets results with none of the issues that come up with "traditional religions" and hence, it works. So, logically, I see no reason to stop practcing my religion.
How do you know the little man isn't also on a higher plane of existence? The point is, you can't prove it true or false, but just because it is unprovable does not mean it's unreasonable to assume it's not there. Only when you see him breathe condensation on the glass and write something in it will it start to become more reasonable to think there's something going on in that jar... Further study is necessary of course, because one still must rule out illusion and hallucination.
Without reading too much about Shrodinger's cat, the concept seems silly and pointless to say something both exists and doesn't just because it's unprovable. You know it either does or it doesn't, and your personal inability to study it has nothing to do with its actual existence.
I'm an atheist and I don't see anything extreme about not believing in God simply because there's not a shred of evidence that there is one and a strong case can be presented that God is merely a mythological human invention. Why should anyone accept as fact the concept that God is real when he's invisible and can't be detected by any means known to man? I'm a reasonable person and completely open to any evidence that might prove that God really exists but I've never seen any.
Greetings, MontanaGuy--Have you studied your body lately--really studied it? Consider the brain. Consider your eyes. Consider your heart. Do they not make you pause in awe at their complexities and wonders?
Have you considered the world around you with its majesties and intricacies? When you consider the works of man's hands--the computer, the space shuttle, the microchip, nuclear energy, etc., do you not marvel that someone of great intelligence and imagination is behind them?
Respectfully, MontanaGuy, I do not understand the atheist mind. Is it logical to believe that there is intelligent design behind the awesome inventions of mankind? Of course! Is it not also logical to believe that there is intelligent design behind the great minds of these men of invention?
God Himself formed you in your mother's womb with as much care and planning as the architect who draws the blueprints for the great wonders of our world. Such creations are not accidents and never could be accidents. Like the tallest building, the fastest jet plane, and the grandest bridge, you are not an accident. You are a living soul accountable to that One who knows us best yet loves us most!
Will you not acknowledge Him, repent of your sins against Him, and live--really live?
"For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man . . . . they did not like to retain God in their knowledge . . . knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death" (Romans 1:20f).
Consider the brain. Consider your eyes. Consider your heart. Do they not make you pause in awe at their complexities and wonders?
If the brain is too perfect to have come about via natural selection and thus was made by god, then why isn't it actually perfect? Why the brain tumors and Alzheimer's and strokes and migraines? If the eyes are so awesomely perfect that they are proof positive of god, why is there a blind spot? Why do people get cataracts? Myopia? Presbyopia? The heart... if it is so incredibly perfect as to prove the existence of god, why the myocardial infarctions? Cardiomyopathies?
What is truly amazing to me is that religious people see such obvious imperfection as proof of an omnipotent god.
How do you know the little man isn't also on a higher plane of existence?
Because the glass is on this plane of existince, and hence, it is bound by the known laws of nature on this plane of existince.
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The point is, you can't prove it true or false, but just because it is unprovable does not mean it's unreasonable to assume it's not there.
Than smash the glass open and let's see. The contents of the glass are observable and hence, that argument makes no sense.
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Only when you see him breathe condensation on the glass and write something in it will it start to become more reasonable to think there's something going on in that jar... Further study is necessary of course, because one still must rule out illusion and hallucination.
No, what ever is going on inside the glass is going on in this universe and not another plane of existince or a higher dimensional space and hence, it is bound by the known laws of the universe.
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Without reading too much about Shrodinger's cat, the concept seems silly and pointless to say something both exists and doesn't just because it's unprovable.
Than take that up with the world's physicists.
Until one answer or another is proven, it is prudent to consider both answers equally plausable and hence, both should be take into consideration at the same time, i.e., a superposition of both "yes" and "no".
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You know it either does or it doesn't, and your personal inability to study it has nothing to do with its actual existence.
If you do not have the ability to study it, than by what criteria can you say it does or doesn't exist? An opinion? As they say in Jersey..."opinions are like $#^ holes, everybody's got one."
Because we cannot prove it does or does not exist, either by observation or the laws of science, we should assume that it is an opinion ended question, an opinion question, and hence, it has no right or wrong answer.
What is truly amazing to me is that religious people see such obvious imperfection as proof of an omnipotent god.
I am a religious person and I am amazed by people who think that we all consider god to be good. Of course things are imperfect, because god, the creator, is a sick f^^^ who enjoys watching people suffer and watching the world in pain.
Belief in god does not equal a belief in a good god.
Because the glass is on this plane of existince, and hence, it is bound by the known laws of nature on this plane of existince.
Than smash the glass open and let's see. The contents of the glass are observable and hence, that argument makes no sense.
No, what ever is going on inside the glass is going on in this universe and not another plane of existince or a higher dimensional space and hence, it is bound by the known laws of the universe.
So my claim has to fit within preconceived notions of physics, but religious claims don't? That sounds like special pleading. You just don't understand the physics of invisible men, like I don't understand the physics of God's "higher plane of existence". If he connected with this world at all, as people claim, then how can he not be subject to those same physical laws? Oh right, he's omnipotent. *cough*special pleading*. My little man is omnipotent too, and he can run away before you can tell he's there when you break open the jar.
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Than take that up with the world's physicists.
Until one answer or another is proven, it is prudent to consider both answers equally plausable and hence, both should be take into consideration at the same time, i.e., a superposition of both "yes" and "no".
If you do not have the ability to study it, than by what criteria can you say it does or doesn't exist? An opinion? As they say in Jersey..."opinions are like $#^ holes, everybody's got one."
Because we cannot prove it does or does not exist, either by observation or the laws of science, we should assume that it is an opinion ended question, an opinion question, and hence, it has no right or wrong answer.
Yes I agree that we can't be sure one way or another, and choosing one answer over another can be considered an opinion. But I disagree that lack of provability renders all possibilities equally likely. You wouldn't say the Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus has just as much chance of existing as not existing, would you?
So my claim has to fit within preconceived notions of physics, but religious claims don't? That sounds like special pleading. You just don't understand the physics of invisible men, like I don't understand the physics of God's "higher plane of existence".
The Gnostic scriptures teach that GOD, the unknowable IT that is not sentient in any way we can understand exist in the true reality, which is larger than this reality and is above the universe and does have some pull on this universe.
Phyisicst have a theory that there is a Higher-dimensional space much more vast than our small membrane of a universe and that there are forces in that Higher-dimensional space that can effect our universe (super gravity) Brane cosmology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Show me one scientific theory which proves that there can exist a invisible little man in a glass, and I will agree with you. Phyicist agree on the principal that there can exist another realm that can have an impact on our less-vast realm of existince, much the same way the Gnostic Scriptures say that the Aeon of Pleroma is the abode of GOD and that it has an effect on this world.
There are clear parallels between the two.
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If he connected with this world at all, as people claim, then how can he not be subject to those same physical laws? Oh right, he's omnipotent.
If gravity is connected to this world, is it subject to the same laws of physics? Yes. Same with GOD. I never said GOD was omnipotent. Stop confusing me with a Nicene.
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Yes I agree that we can't be sure one way or another, and choosing one answer over another can be considered an opinion. But I disagree that lack of provability renders all possibilities equally likely. You wouldn't say the Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus has just as much chance of existing as not existing, would you?
No, but I would say that about something that had some eyewitnesses to existing and is within the realm of physics, like a sea serpent. Sea serpents once existed around the time of the dinosaurs, and people claim to have seen them. Do they exist? YES/NO.
GOD has been claimed to have been experienced by people all over the world and, as I explained above, is within the realm of scientific probablity. Does GOD exist? YES/NO
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