The bible is immoral (myth, Israel, punished, Commandments)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Some of you really need to read the Bible and understand the reason for the atrocities you are condeming.
Here think about this; God sent prophets to Israel to bring them closer to Him and to call them to repentance repeatedly. Who is to say God did not do the same to all other races and they all rejected Him?
Regarding the OT: Just because it's truthfully and dutifully recorded in the scriptures does not mean it was condoned by God. Allowed, yes.. condoned, not necessarily. There's a difference that needs to be distinguished.
So you consider the specific laws that the bible says the LORD gave to his people are merely things the people did, that god allowed but didn't have anything to do with?
Quote:
I believe you're missing the point of Jesus' sacrifice. Jesus willingly became our sacrifice. It was not done unknowingly. He knew before he came his purpose in coming. He paid our debt because we were not able to. It was the ultimate act of love and humility. He's paid the bail and I'm free and out of jail. All those who accept and follow can be as well.
Yes, I know the story. But who did Jesus pay our debt to? Himself? Why does this whole technicality even matter?
But aside from that paradoxical implication.. why would god, the ultimate judge, accept punishing an innocent person instead of those responsible for the crimes? Is there any judge in any civilized country who would execute an innocent man to let a convicted criminal go free? And if so, would you agree with such a decision?
Some of you really need to read the Bible and understand the reason for the atrocities you are condeming.
Here think about this; God sent prophets to Israel to bring them closer to Him and to call them to repentance repeatedly. Who is to say God did not do the same to all other races and they all rejected Him?
So the infanticide god wrought on all the innocent Egyptian babies in Exodus is justified because the parents rejected god?
Many people know about the horrible acts committed and condoned by god in the bible. Genocide, murder, racism, sexism, slavery, cruel and unusual punishments, etc. All of these are open for discussion on this thread.
But how many think about the moral implications of passing guilt onto others, AKA the scapegoat? Is sacrificing innocent life to absolve guilt moral? Is it moral for Jesus to take the blame for our sins?
No judge would allow an innocent man to be executed in order for a known killer to go free, because it is just not right. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.
And yet, the story of Jesus is nothing more than the epitome of an innocent man being punished for others' crimes. While this 'salvation' may sound wonderful to the average person who fears death, it makes no moral sense. What makes it even more difficult, is that the god that is supposed to be the creator of morality caused this so-called "justice" to take place.
Even in the beginning of the bible, this passing on of guilt occurs. The guilt of Adam and Eve is supposedly transferred to all of humanity. Thus, innocent babies are charged with being sinful upon being born, when they had nothing to do with any of the "crimes."
Why does the god of the bible hold all people accountable for others' actions, while at the same time removing that same "accountability" by punishing the ultimate innocent person?
I agree with much of this. It's one of the reasons that I do not believe in organized religion, and find people who live life based on the bible.... worrying.
I don't think that people understand that the bible was written by men. Not by god. Not by Jesus - and not by anyone who knew Jesus. Just by men. Some books which were submitted were accepted into print, and some were not. Who knows who decided which books were acceptable and which weren't. A man I guess - like anyone here. Does anyone here really think they are qualified to make those kinds of decisions? Because a man or men back then did think so - and they still have a huge following of people who read those books submitted by men and chosen by men, as though they were the words of God. I wonder if God is irritated by this audacity?
I am also sure that many nuance changes took place during the numerous translations.
There is a lot of good in the bible - as in most holy books from the varying organized religions (including Islam btw). But there is also a lot of bad.
A lot of stories which were meant to be illustrations, which many people take literally. Adam and Eve being an especially embarrassing example of this. Do people REALLY think that Eve was crafted of Adam's rib? Really?
I would not call the bible an immoral book, but I would call parts of it both immoral and dangerous. The murder of children and babies being part of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69
Some of you really need to read the Bible and understand the reason for the atrocities you are condeming.
Here think about this; God sent prophets to Israel to bring them closer to Him and to call them to repentance repeatedly. Who is to say God did not do the same to all other races and they all rejected Him?
I have read the bible (and some other religious books). I see no excuse for some of the atrocites. Can you please explain what makes mass murder and genocide acceptable?
My suspicion is that a lot of people who consider themselves devout religious followers (especially Christian and Muslim), will be in for a somewhat unpleasant surprise if there is indeed a God and a heaven.
Because they spend so much time being smug and self congratulatory that they have been 'saved', and so judgemental of others and how they live (homosexuals for example). In my mind this is not what God is about at all.
All the wars fought in the 'name of God'. All the people killed. This goes directly AGAINST the principles that I would imagine a God to have. If those are in fact the priciples that God has, then it is not a God that I would wish to be aligned with.
I believe in God, but organized religion is little more than a mechanism to control the population. It simply astounds me how many people buy into it. And how so often the people who seem to behave the worst in life, are the ones who are most religious.
I far prefer people who try their best to live the best and kindest life that they can. Who try NOT to judge others and who are tolerant of those around them. I don't always live up to this as much as I would like to, but I am trying.
I don't think that people understand that the bible was written by men. Not by god. Not by Jesus - and not by anyone who knew Jesus. Just by men.
I believe it's important to remember that the Bible was written from man's point of view, yes - but with a God-conscious view of the world. We can do the same today.
The judgments poured out by God were severe, but they reflected the condition of man when opposed to the holiness of His standards. This all culminated at Calvary. He simply - and entirely - gave to His Son what mankind deserved, at His sovereign prerogative.
I believe it's important to remember that the Bible was written from man's point of view, yes - but with a God-conscious view of the world. We can do the same today.
.
From WHICH men? Which men are deemed suitable to write God's word for all to follow? Which men are deemed suitable to make the decision about which books to include and which not to?
Some of the 'holiest' men, are also the ones with the most extreme views. In my opinion those most holy of men, are not the ones who should be writing a book that people are going to follow as though it's the actual words of God for the next couple of thousand years.
Also the ones who deem themselves holy enough to fulfill the task, may also be the ones with some kind of ego issues, and vested interest in what is written. It could be used as a way to ensure that their own persoanl prejudices get to be passed on from generation to generation.
This IMHO is a bad idea.
Take the bible for what it is - an interesting historical book, which captures a snippet of ideas about God fom the time period.
It is NOT a manual on how to live your life. I doubt all the stories were ever intended to be read as though they were real. Yet some other man/ men has determined that they be interpreted in that way, and the sheeple have been indoctrined with it in Churches and often in schools.
That does not make it the truth.
All the quoting of bible passages that goes on in this forum amuses me, because it means nothing more than that some man, at some time wrote it down.
I could just as easily open up any other book and quote some equally nonsensical passage back. It was not written by anyone any better than you or me. Just some man's point of view at the time. Nothing more.
Some of you really need to read the Bible and understand the reason for the atrocities you are condeming.
Here think about this; God sent prophets to Israel to bring them closer to Him and to call them to repentance repeatedly. Who is to say God did not do the same to all other races and they all rejected Him?
Oh I understand it alright...It is called genocide.
Of the many passages in the Hebrew Scriptures that describe major loss of life, most were conventional wars. Four of these events would probably qualify as genocides under most current definitions of the term. They were:
* The worldwide flood at the time of Noah as described in Genesis, chapters 6 to 8. From the description, it almost completely wiped out the human race, with the exception of Noah, his wife and sons and their wives.
* The Passover incident described in Exodus chapters 11 and 12, in which all of the firstborn of all Egypt were slaughtered.
* The conquest of Canaan, in which God ordered the Hebrews to completely exterminate the Canaanite people -- from the elderly to newborns and fetuses. This is described throughout the book of Joshua.
* The near extermination of the entire tribe of Benjamin by the remaining 11 tribes, triggered by the serial rape and murder of a priest's concubine by a few Benjamites. See Judges, chapter 20.
The first three of the above genocides have at least three factors in common.......
* The Bible explains that God was primarily responsible.
* Many liberal Christians, liberal Jews, historians and biblical archaeologists believe that all three are religious myths -- stories of great spiritual significance about events that never actually happened.
* Jewish and Christian conservatives generally believe in that the authors of the Bible were inspired by God and thus their writings are inerrant. They believe that the genocides happened exactly as described in the Bible.
* The Bible explains that God was primarily responsible.
* Many liberal Christians, liberal Jews, historians and biblical archaeologists believe that all three are religious myths -- stories of great spiritual significance about events that never actually happened.
* Jewish and Christian conservatives generally believe in that the authors of the Bible were inspired by God and thus their writings are inerrant. They believe that the genocides happened exactly as described in the Bible.
Do you believe that these things never happened? I think it is entirely plausible that they happened - and that some explanation was created about them, and meaning allocated to natural disaster events.
Perhaps in the future people will look back on Tsunami as some God driven event to get rid of the 'evil' people living in the areas effected? Who knows?
I think it's entirely possible that the earth has seen many extinction level events, that only a few early man people escaped from alive. A flood sounds perfectly possible to me - the end of an earlier ice age? Melting of the polar ice caps, or the North American ice age (where the great lakes are all that is left).
It's also possible that some terrible disease swept through the city killing off infants who were too young to fight said disease, or that a murderous rampage was reconfigured into some rightous deed to make the perpetrators feel better about themselves.
I'm sure some are straight fantasy, but I think it's possible that many stories have some basis in reality, and that people needed an explanation for what had happened, so legands were made. And those legands turned into widely accepted beliefs. And those beliefs were written down in a the book which people now read as though it is the word of God.
No different to the Nordic legands with stories about the meaning of shooting stars or the Northern lights.
You are of course talking about the Old Testament.
While this may be so, there are a lot of things from the OT that we are supposed to take seriously and practice today like creation, the flood, hating gays and subservient women to name a few.
I think this can get to a slippery slope of picking and choosing what to follow and what we choose not to. A lot of the things we choose not to follow have no doubt come from a societal cause against these things.
Some of you really need to read the Bible and understand the reason for the atrocities you are condeming.
Here think about this; God sent prophets to Israel to bring them closer to Him and to call them to repentance repeatedly. Who is to say God did not do the same to all other races and they all rejected Him?
Well, right off the bat one should point out that an all knowing god would have seen these things coming. It shows either poor foresight or irresponsibility on the part of god that he created mankind and then was surprised to find that his little experiment turned out to be murderous, primal, butt holes...
And as far as rejection there are a few reasons that are pretty plausible. namely the fact that there were other religions out there just as there are now and just like now they aren't going to believe in this god just because someone says they are supposed to. Also considering gods track record of genocidal hissy fits one can't really blame a few groups of people for rejecting him.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
