Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar? (choices, vain, salvation)
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K, I am a bit at a loss as to the point? You started this by I trying to discount anything I had to say in terms of positive personal experiences, by saying all people on all cults had positive experiences - else they would stay.
Kinda sloppy as people on non-Cults have positive experiences, else they wouldn't stay. - as well.
Now instead of just acknowledging that we have a new list of points and asking me to do heavy lifting things like define enlightenment?
--1) People's own experiences are inside of them...
I agree, with the pragraph
A fuller view is that we have two forms of experiences or two perspectives. The inner, and the outer. So like I can have a state of consciousness and have that on the inside, I could also be cuffed to a heart rate monitor, or have a brainwave skull cap on, and that others can observe
2) Define enlightenment and what makes you so sure Gary has attained it as opposed to me, your mailman, your neighbors down the street, or anyone else? Because he told you?
You start, please do the same for anyone you consider to be enlightened. Tell me for example, one person that has reached enlightenment via your 'do it yourself' approach and how you know they are in fact there.
3) My way is different because I know that whatever God is (or is not), I can "know" it... without another person selling me books, tapes and pictures of themselves while quarantining my learning and thoughts to what they teach.
So your point is you know a sure way to knowing God?
How do you know this? Have you experienced God or is it a matter of faith?
Can you point to anyone else that has known God,as you describe it?
4) If the desire to expose frauds and false gurus/megalomaniacs makes me intolerant, I'm in good company.
if your judgement about who is a false guru is heavily based on the simple fact that they don't fit your spiritual/religious belief systems - then thats what I am calling intolerance
I agree that would put you in lots of company, I don't know if I would call it good. It would put you in those leading things like witch trials, inquisitions and that sort of fair.
5) L&S materials, try amazon.com for starters. Try looking within. Basically, nothing Gary "wrote" is unique, so the very same sources he used to start his cult should be of help to you!
Oh so you don't know if what you said is in fact true?
Let me ask this, if the facts are that there are no publicly available versions of the L&S materials, and I'm not just referring to a simple into book, what would that say about your credibility?
Or let me ask you this, if it turns out to be true that MP has produced books in formats that have unique content, or unique presentation, or unique in terms of ways that make learning easier, - what would that say about your credibility? You did say he has done NOTHING unique, right?
(answer carefully)
Also, I have a preference for the spoken lessons, the satsangs and teachings from Sri Gary. I use them in my comtemplation. Can you point to an alternate, non Guru source for the same thing?
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That might be it for me in this forum, because lately coming here with the only purpose being to argue with you (and not to gather information or learn) has got all my chakras way the hell out of alignment.
By all means don't let your chakras get out alignment. If your only here to gather and not help - then why would you be arguing with anyone?
I cant help but observer that when we get to points where your bias and judgments and your belief systems are the only case for your facts, or like deepcynic who has to resort to accusations without proof , your last resort is to high tale it out.
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That's not the way the whole guru idea was originally designed to work.
Would you care to discuss? Because this is just one more aspect of your belief system about Gurus and How it differs from mine. I am happy to discuss, here or in another thread.
We can start with a discussion around whether spiritual system are static, or do they evolve with the society, cultures, science, etc. For example are the sames ideas of the guru up on the mountain, reaching enlightenment while semi recluse appropriate today? has the householder path more appropriate and even more dominate today?
In any case my short answer your point just is based on antiquated ideas. I'll even go further and say that you cherry pick from these old ways and leave behind those that are inconvenient to you. Like the role of women and gurus in the past.
Kinda sloppy as people on non-Cults have positive experiences, else they wouldn't stay. - as well.
It's pretty simple. People "on non-cults" (as you say) have positive experiences...and in addition to their non-cult positive experiences, they're not being taken for fools, giving money to false gurus, or hanging pictures of megalomaniacs. So I choose the "non-cult" positive experiences. Call me crazy.
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Tell me for example, one person that has reached enlightenment via your 'do it yourself' approach and how you know they are in fact there.
Gary has claimed enlightenment, he's the subject here. You're the one who believes him. You have the burden of proof, I've claimed nothing.
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So your point is you know a sure way to knowing God?
How do you know this? Have you experienced God or is it a matter of faith?
Can you point to anyone else that has known God,as you describe it?
Yes, all of the above. And I already said it's only my personal experience and I will not be discussing it with you.
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if your judgement about who is a false guru is heavily based on the simple fact that they don't fit your spiritual/religious belief systems - then thats what I am calling intolerance
Read the false guru test. Ask everyone who came up with that test if they're on a witch hunt. My judgements are based on what's there, as well as my own intuition.
And as far as the rest, it's not up to me to find you books and tapes. I have personally seen websites, and several well-reviewed books available online. If you prefer your light and sound of the schizophrenic rambling writing variety or the "you betcha dontcha know" accent speaking variety, I guess that's why you heart Gary so much. But it's a big world out there. If you think one guy has a monopoly on selling enlightenment, okay. I guess that's why you're in a cult.
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I cant help but observer that when we get to points where your bias and judgments and your belief systems are the only case for your facts, or like deepcynic who has to resort to accusations without proof , your last resort is to high tale it out.
It's high-tail. Sorry, but that's actually one of the reasons I get irritated having a so-called "discussion" with you. Sometimes I feel like I'm an english teacher with a big red marker when I read your posts. No, I'm kidding, it actually wouldn't bother me in the least if you hadn't claimed to be in MENSA. Besides that though, it's sort of pointless to continue, it goes nowhere. Plus, I simply don't have the luxury of spending the amount of time online that you do. Most days I worked at home this week, but it's not typical. My short lived stint as a message board poster is nearing it's end I'm afraid. You'll have to argue with someone else.
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Would you care to discuss? Because this is just one more aspect of your belief system about Gurus and How it differs from mine. I am happy to discuss, here or in another thread.
No thanks. Most anything I've read about gurus would indicate that selling big pictures of your big bad guru self is a no-no. They're supposed to have a personal relationship with you and be kind-hearted from what I've read as well. Gary's relationship with you is him talking and you paying the bills. If you want to steer away from the conventional wisdom about gurus being kind, accessible, and humble, that's fine. But I guess that's why you're in a cult.
So I'm off to get my ch'i back and all that. But as a parting gift, I'll leave the link to this video I found today, which incidently has nothing to do with anyone's dogma, or cults, or anything about MP. It's just creepy, sort of hilarious, but above all... extremely disturbing. I have no doubt it will give me horrible nightmares tonight. Now it will be here for all to enjoy and be haunted by it forever.
dude, you sound like a wacko defending a bunch of fringe lunatic new age weirdos claiming 'unique' knowledge of God
this olsen character affiliated with Eckarnkar, then people should certainly take heed.
Ok, thanks for your opinion. That and a cup of coffee might keep me awake, for an hour or two.
yes Gary seems to have had brush with Eckankar in his past, though for how long no one seems to have reported. I do assume it was after he came back from Vietnam.
It is for me totaly consistant with MP and Sri Gary's teachings. The idea of provisionary faith, as opposed to blindfaith, of experimenting, validating, not taking Gurus word for it.
dude, you sound like a wacko defending a bunch of fringe lunatic new age weirdos claiming 'unique' knowledge of God
this olsen character affiliated with Eckarnkar, then people should certainly take heed.
Haven't you read what allan has said, he is not 'defending' MasterPath. He just spends innumerable hours at his keyboard 'not defending' MasterPath'.
He seems to think that if he types lots of words it gives him some sort of credibility.
I know the damage MP has done to families, he claims he does not and that may well be true, but I have to wonder what his family really thinks. At the very least every moment he spends at the keyboard is a moment not spent with his family. I don't care about him, that is his business, but it does show something to others.
It's pretty simple. People "on non-cults" (as you say) have positive experiences.
Which is exactly why it made no sense to me to bring up the whole thing about invalidating my experience because someone on a cult may have the same.
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Originally Posted by Violet11
they're not being taken for fools, giving money to false gurus, or hanging pictures of megalomaniacs. So I choose the "non-cult" positive experiences. Call me crazy.
A change of subject. Thanks for validating the original point.
Crazy
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Gary has claimed enlightenment, he's the subject here. You're the one who believes him. You have the burden of proof, I've claimed nothing.
You've made no claims? Burden of proof? You don't mean in any sorta fair justice system. Where the prosecutor has the burden of proof. Do you really think its ok to accuse any person of causing people serious Harm, and not have any burden of proof.
I don't care to prove you or anyone wrong, I am not here as the defense to your prosecution. I am here to learn, to present my perspective on matters and I guess also it has developed into to keeping folks honest, to raise the bar. By honest I mean these types of things easily become one way slanders.
Oh wait, you mean I have the burden of proof to accept Gary's claims of being a Sat Guru of the L&S lineage. Sure ok. You statement that you have made no claims threw me off I guess.
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Read the false guru test. Ask everyone who came up with that test if they're on a witch hunt. My judgements are based on what's there, as well as my own intuition.
Of course everyone that came up with that and every other anticult redflag test was on a witch hunt. Your really distorting things to even imply that connection. There is vast difference between the folks making such honest efforts and the bulk of the reports here.
I am the one that has argued for such things for a long time, perhaps from the begging. I've made such attempts. I find you foolish trying to take some sort of high ground on this.
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And as far as the rest, it's not up to me to find you books and tapes.
Let's not twist the issue. You made claims about other ways to learn L&S teaching that are just as effective. I believe you are flatly wrong and I accuse you of not knowing what your talking about. You are free of course to defend your self, or not as you see fit.
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it's sort of pointless to continue, it goes nowhere.
As you will. Thanks for passing by, some of your personal help and insights were wonderful, thanks again.
That video was - don't know. Creepy, funny, so many things - I wish Id had a joint or something to watch that
...But I cant tell anyone, its secret, just trrust me on this.
Ok, well thats more data, the Harm Gary or MP does to family's. At least thats some for of description.
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At the very least every moment he spends at the keyboard is a moment not spent with his family
Oh please your concern is disingenuous and petty. We are all happier now then ever.
Ive said all along that I don't understand the claims of MP taking people away from their families and out of life. It is the antithesis to my experience. No one has had the balls to do anything but make the claim and accusation with no explanation at all.
I also see no support in the teachings anywhere, in what is spoken and written.
Personally I suspect people just don't want to come to grips with their own responsibility in the matter. Its easier to blame another. But I could be wrong, and again the main basis for this suspicion is my own experience.
As I don't want to fall prey to the same, and for the sake of all current chelas I would love more discussion on this.
What is not pointless, however, is that we are getting the word out on the scam that is MasterPath.
I have received quite a few messages of thanks for the effort. It will continue.
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