Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar? (miracle, angels, forgiveness)

[deepcynic]

You don't listen very well do you?

I have nothing more to say to you, you are just an MP apologist and defender, it is not productive.

[deepcynic]

The facts will come out in due time, through proper channels.

[allan1015]

You do realize that insisting on Accusation for which evidence is back room and private - that sound alot like persecution, and just represents all kionds of wrong?

So let me get this straight, you dump all of your points about Gary that may fall under my belief system, different ins spiritual beliefs, discussion.
You then narrow down to two basic accusations

Then you refuse to discuss those two, well actually one, accusation
and instead now play the I am not worthy of conversation game


No disrespect intended but Accusations with backroom proofs, avoiding discussion of claims and throwing insults at me to get off the subject, it just feel like you have a weak case and are trying to avoid it and distract from it.

[Violet11]

Allan, your desperation is embarrassing. I would imagine it's probably embarrassing to your master as well, but attempting to be "right" is more important to you. It's all Allan, all the time.

It shouldn't be so mind-boggling for you to understand that most people don't care to share their whole life story on a message board. Just because you don't mind telling everyone that you're impotent, where you and your two or four kids (whichever it is) live, that you were separated for several months, etc. doesn't mean we should all share private matters. It's disrespectful.

The issue of non-profit tax status is a serious one. Saying there have been no lawsuits is not evidence that MasterPath is squeaky clean, it only means they may not have been deeply investigated yet. MasterPath might be small potatoes to the IRS, but sooner or later these things catch up with people.

Yet you refuse, via silence, to look at how images are used by other spiritual/religous paths - as well as why anyone would actually buy such a picture and to what use they put it.

Again, you picked one sentence to quote me on, which was "I can't believe you still don't get it". The rest of what I wrote (and you failed to quote) answered the question quite thoroughly. Any guru of any path that distributes/sells pictures of himself (even with or without Jesus and other spiritual leaders) is a megalomaniac, not a guru. I don't care what people use the pictures for. The fact that they are available says enough.

Do you know the answer to the question? If images were not provided until fairly recently. If he didn't have images for the first 15 years MP was around, that would paint a different picture, no pun intended.

I know the images were available a long time ago, because I saw them myself a long time ago. No, I'm not going to say when or what year. Partly because that's not your business, and partly because I want to see what you come up with for the year that Gary finally - oh so reluctantly -allowed his image to be sold and distributed. Specifically, the year that the sweet old lady's Jesus and Gary and the masters painting was unveiled. Find it. You'll see for yourself how many years he supposedly spent toiling over whether to make money off of his image.

[Violet11]

And in the future Allan, if you're going to quote me, I ask that you not leave out words from my sentences when you repost them. Using one sentence is fine, but it should be quoted the way I wrote it.

[rememberingyou]

Violet, pictures have been available since year one. In fact each year there are new pictures. There are artists renderings going back to the beginning of the path, as well as photographs. The picture that Allan speaks of, which is an oil painting done about 6 or 7 years ago was not just an expression of devotion by the artist. The artist was asked to do the picture. And while true that she is a beautiful human being with a kind heart, it was more than a little disconcerting that an entire seminar was devoted to the painting's unveiling. In the past when people have done service for MP (and all seva is for the master and Joy btw) they were sometimes gifted with extra large pictrues of the master to display in their homes. Gary loves his own image just as Narcisus did and photographs, pencil sketches, paintings...all have been available from the beginning and will most likely continue to be.

[Violet11]

Originally Posted by rememberingyou

Violet, pictures have been available since year one. In fact each year there are new pictures. There are artists renderings going back to the beginning of the path, as well as photographs. The picture that Allan speaks of, which is an oil painting done about 6 or 7 years ago was not just an expression of devotion by the artist. The artist was asked to do the picture. And while true that she is a beautiful human being with a kind heart, it was more than a little disconcerting that an entire seminar was devoted to the painting's unveiling. In the past when people have done service for MP (and all seva is for the master and Joy btw) they were sometimes gifted with extra large pictrues of the master to display in their homes. Gary loves his own image just as Narcisus did and photographs, pencil sketches, paintings...all have been available from the beginning and will most likely continue to be.

Thank you rememberingyou, for clearing that up. My suspicion was that Gary had never been reluctant in any way about his image being glorified, but I'm so appreciative that you confirmed it. The pictures/drawings I saw (including the one with Gary and all the great masters) were mostly sketches, so I did wonder if the oil painting was just another artist's rending of a previously presented theme. Sounds like that's the case.

I know your desire to break from things that dwell on MP and your past. This is very understandable and I respect your sentiment. Thank you again for offering everything you have to this forum. Hopefully the discussion and the answers to the questions that have been posed here will be helpful to someone out there who needs them.

[allan1015]

Wow talk about apologetic, one tune, combative, people.
It will be a good day when you all start practicing what you preach, the hypocrisy level goes down.

Its almost like the closer one gets to showing the emptiness of your accusations, the man behind your curtain, you start getting nastier. Buts its fine I understand your need to project this on me. and to try and distact peoiple from the facts. Of course i could be wrong, it could all be coincidence.

In any case keeping focus on issues:

When people Accuse another of harm and hurt, but then only offer trust me as any further discussion, or try to shift to attacking the person asking for information - well thats pretty much against the entire concept fo our judicial system, its considered by most as not fair play, and some would consider it is the accuser in desperation.


So as I understand your ethics here, It is perfectly ok, even honorable and brave, to Accuse someone of hanious, harmful and hurting others on a public website, but not ok, to offer any explanations? Not even a basic description of the form of Harm. These are you ethics and you consider them fair and just?

Its not an accusation, just trying to paraphrase what I hear you saying, so we can clarify.


I find the 'life story' framing of this to be a smoke screen. I care not for anyones life story, or even partial life story. I care not if the facts presented are third party or direct.

Again, read carefully, the following:

The accusation is that Gary harms/hurts people and thats a FACT

I am looking to understand the form, scope, of this harm as best I can

-could you describe the form of this harm, is it mental, physical, both?

-Is it more prevalent in long term students versus short term ones, can we say the affect is worse the longer you stay

-Does nay body get our without this harm, can people leave MP with perhaps juts mild regret for time ill spent?

-Are there other places where this for of hurt is seen, after people leave harm is seen, like does it happen when people leave other spiritual / religious organization. Would a Christian have the same type sof spiritual/emotional crises and feeling when they leave their faith?

-Do you think its psychic, as in Gary is messing with people in some psychic way after they leave the path.

Please note the above questions are just examples, I am trying to give a sense of having as objective a conversation about this 'Harm' which is one of Two key issues you have with MP.

Please leave out all personal information.

Saying there have been no lawsuits is not evidence that MasterPath is squeaky clean, it only means they may not have been deeply investigated yet.

Factually it means neither. I never said the conclusion was MP was squeaky clean. I said the facts are that in 22 years there have no known issues, no one has reported, no legal suites, nothing anyone is aware of.
From that the only conclusion I am willing to grant is that the IRS and legal authorities have no issues. Of course up to this point.

I dont think its i intelligent, ethical, or anything else to 'convict' anyone of crimes based on potential future action. 'That woman over there, she is evil, trust me it will come out some day' Now everyone should proceed as if this si now fact and proven?

If you want to brush off the lack of IRS?Legal issue with excuses like the IRS is to busy thats your prerogative.

I would point out the way you and others have this tendency to excuse your own 'excuses' and brushing off of facts. Much like you accuse me of.

I on't care what people use the pictures for. The fact that they are available says enough.

I understand, thats your opinion. and its a silly one to me, and the fact that you turn a deaf ear to looking at all sides of the issue, and only focus in on that which helps you case is unfortunate, though I guess understandable, it seems to be what people with weak and opinionated arguments do.

[allan1015]

Originally Posted by Violet11

And in the future Allan, if you're going to quote me, I ask that you not leave out words from my sentences when you repost them. Using one sentence is fine, but it should be quoted the way I wrote it.

Nah, what I do with cutting out the superfluous info, meaning not Germain to my point is fine. Its a common practice and is an aid to help focus. If I did not put in the '...' to indicate the missing text that would not be ethical.

As to your ranting about me taking one sentence, it is simply a marker so people can look back to the paragraph I was working from if need be. I could just as easily start my conversation with no reference back to your specific post/point. Quoting is not required at all. Putting in one sentance an aid, to help if anyone needs to refer back, is a courtesy.

Sorry you don't like ti, but I will continue as well

[allan1015]

In the interest of accuracy, I clearly said the artist may have been commissioned. It feels as if you have twisted my words to imply I said it was Just a show of devotion.

As to her content to the drawing, the specific details where the artist choice and inspiration per her words.
However I also clearly said I don't know if Gary or anyone at MP set some general parameters, like something that shows lineage when/if they commissioned her.

Your statement that an entire seminar was allocated to the Unveiling is a incorrect. I'll assume a mistake not a purposed lie, you don't seem like the type.
The tape I was referring to had perhaps a 10m unveiling, intro, let her speak kind of thing. Did you not know this? did you just read into my post?

Thanks for your clarification on when pictures where available. Was information I was looking for. Can I ask how sure you are, how you know, you came in something like at least 6 years later, rough estimate. I am still nagged by what comment made about reluctance of pictures and I am more convinced it was Oct 06 seminar in San Diego.