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If you really believe in what you believe ;it really makes no differene what othewrs say. Getting this fustrated is more likely you are trying to convince others. Forget that and you are fine.If you struggle to obey the ten commnadments all the time and pray then you doing better than most sinners in this world.
I am sick of it all. I'm sick of really starting to get something going and maybe even a foot onto the Rock that is Christianity.
Only to be pulled down by my interpretation of Life or Human Nature or The Devil or to be run off my some "Christian's" big-fat hypocritical mouth.
Don't get me wrong. Some christians have truely "got it." I hope they always will. I wish I could.
And there are a few athiests out there that I think "have it." Well, maybe only a couple.
But what about us Agnostics? Where do we fit in? This is why I'm posting this NOT in Christianity and NOT in Athiests.
I consider myself to be a staunch spiritual person. I want more. I want to go to Heaven, but not right now. And I don't want to go to Hell. Not ever. Although, I believe I might have backed out of Purgatory on several occasions. But the staunch Christians will say, "Oh no you didn't! Hell is so much worse." Oh really? How the hell do YOU know?
Show me something practical. Show me your true and unadulterated testimony. Not your belief in some book.
I don't have a problem with the book. I think the Book would be just fine if us dorks would just leave it alone and create our own "Book", our own Life Experience!
Once you put it down on paper, it becomes STATIC! This world and this UNIVERSE AIN'T STATIC!!!!!!!!!! IT'S NOT LINEAR!!!!!!!!!! THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS A TIME TO KILL!!!!!!!!! THERE IS A TIME TO STEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS A TIME TO LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't tell me I'm going to Hell. How the HELL do you know? Don't tell me I'm going to Hell unless you're willing to lead the way.
I want a new religion. I may have to create my own. I may have to be quiet about it. But I'm sick of your religion.
GOD is just bigger than that! I know this for a fact! I just can't prove it right now. If I could, I'd probably be in more trouble than I think I am in now.
How's that for a paradox?
PS: Flashforward to Haaziq: Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm more of an Others, aka Locke fan. And no. The earth is not Static. It's dynamic. Our minds make it static and put it into a time/space box to get a finite understanding of it. But thanks for the viewpoint.
Why not just stop listening to (and therefore fighting with) those Christians that are so misguided (of which there are far too many) and absorb some teachings, in some form, on both mystical/esoteric Christianity (if you resonate with the Christ ... beyond the ridiculous and limited characature of Jesus and the Christ) and Zen Buddhism?
Zen is free of dogma.
Or just start to meditate.
If your aim is realization then find your Way to realization.
But don't waste any more energy (inside your own head or outside with others) in fighting with the lie. Just leave it.
If you're sincere, you'll find your way to a spiritual practice (or whatever you wanna call it) that is not in conflict with your nature.
I ALWAYS look back and think, "What was I thinking!"
And then I laugh at myself.
And I'll admit that I want to start my own religion because I want a new position! But who on this planet hasn't tried to do the same? With the BEST of intentions!
And yes, DOTL. I am serious. But I'm ok. Nothing out of the ordinary for me. I'm sober, and I quit tobacco, and now I have my crazy mind to deal with! I've eliminated a couple of symptoms and now I have to like Boyce says so perfectly, "Different like everybody else".
I want to hear your testimony, but I'm afraid of what they say about that Carpenter. What if a miracle happens and I get "converted". It doesn't sit too well with me what's gonna happen to all my "buddies".
You know what I mean? I still can't reconcile with that little canyon. What about my Jewish, Muslim, Islamic, Buddist, Athiest, Doubting Thomas, Pagan, and otherwise New-Age friends? Do they really all have to go to Hell?
If so, I have a problem with that.
If hell exists.. it is because we.. ourselves have created it.. every dark deed a person does becomes lodged in their own memories.. and by this means.. becomes a part of them.. very much like the story by Oscar Wilde - The Portrait of Dorian Gray.. which was also made into a film.
In the same way every good thing we do.. or say.. becomes a part of us.
I believe if people live their lives consciously.. trying to do good rather than harm.. then they have nothing to fear from death.
In my mind what belief system a person has makes no difference.. as long as they feel that it is the right belief system for them. The only ones who should fear death.. are those who are truly evil.. and who have spent their lives doing great harm to innocent people and other living things.
Every one has some darkness in them.. but by being conscious of it.. we can keep it from getting out of control.
Both good ..and bad people.. do bad things.. the difference being.. the good person regrets his / her actions.. while the - truly - bad person.. doesn't.
The good person repents (feels sorry for what they have done wrong).. and.. by this means.. clears their "sin".
This was one of Jesus' teachings.
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“We know that the mask of the unconscious is not rigid -it reflects the face we turn towards it. Hostility lends it a threatening aspect, friendliness softens its features.”
Carl Jung - Psychology and Alchemy
Last edited by accelerator; 07-17-2008 at 09:54 PM..
I want to hear your testimony, but I'm afraid of what they say about that Carpenter. What if a miracle happens and I get "converted". It doesn't sit too well with me what's gonna happen to all my "buddies".
BUDDHA DEFINES A "TRUE MIRACLE"
A householder approached Gautama and said: `It would be well if you would give command to some Brother to perform a miracle here. Thus I would become more devoted to the Venerable Gautama.'
The Master replied: `It is not my custom to give commands to the Brothers to perform miracles.' He turned to go , but the householder would not let him do so and repeated his request. Where upon the Master said: `There are three kinds of miracles. The first is the ability to rise in the air, pass through walls and like. You have heard of this kind of miracle?'
`Yes, Master.'
`There is great danger in the performance of this kind of miracle (Inflated ego);' the Master's voice rose slightly. `Therefore I loathe, detest and am ashamed thereof.'
`Oh! said the man, taken back. This was the first time he had heard a holy man speak thus. Usually sages and seers regarded the ability to perform miracles as a sign of great sanctity.
The Master went on: `Then there is a second kind of miracle, the kind performed when one claims to read the thoughts and emotions of another. There is great danger in the performance of these miracles, also. Therefore these, too, I detest and abhor.'
`Do you then detest and abhor all miracles, Master?'
'No, replied the Master, `there is a third kind of miracle which I love and with which I am pleased. This miracle is performed when a person becomes educated, that is to say, he becomes practised in the living of the Brahma-life. That miracle is performed within a man's own self; it needs no charms, or prayer to any god. It is the miracle of overcoming the world, so that nothing of earth has power over such a one. That miracle is the greatest of all miracles, and that miracle I love and venerate.'
'I forbid you, O bhikkhus, to employ any spells or supplications, for they are useless, since the law of karma governs all things. He who attempts to perform miracles has not understood the doctrine of the Tathagata.'
Then the householder went away telling everyone that Gautama would perform no miracles, but would show the way to perform the miracle of making saints and that that was a good miracle even as the others were bad.
The display of miracles does not conduce to the conversion of the unconverted. Rather it will cause disgust in those not converted, and in those who are converted, a falling away.'"
Extract ftom the Buddhist Gospels
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In other words.. the wise sage - IS - the miracle..
“I have become just like a miracle to many people; But you are my strong refuge.”
Psalms 71:7
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Last edited by accelerator; 07-17-2008 at 11:16 PM..
Show me something practical. Show me your true and unadulterated testimony. Not your belief in some book.
I don't have a problem with the book. I think the Book would be just fine if us dorks would just leave it alone and create our own "Book", our own Life Experience!
Do you mean.. perhaps.. something like this Buddhist teaching.... ?
Which is known through experience.
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"... for what reason should one accept a teaching?'
`You should accept it only if you yourself can prove out of your own experience that it makes for contentment and well-being.'"
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TEACHING KNOWN THROUGH EXPERIENCE
`Folk say you are a conjurer,' he said as soon as he came into the Master's presence, `and that you know glamorous tricks by which you entice away the followers of those holding other views. Is this so?' The Brothers with him watched the Master smiling and knew that the skeptic himself would soon fall under that magic spell, if he were not under it already.
`Hearsay evidence is not dependable evidence,' said the Master, `do not go on hearsay, and do not accept any teaching on hearsay.'
`No', said the skeptic, that is why I came to find out for myself.'
`Furthermore,' continued the Master: `no teaching should be accepted because of reverence for the teacher, or reverence for sacred sayings.'
`No', broke in the questioner. `I should say that a teaching should be accepted only if it is logical and satisfies the reason.'
`No', continued the Master. `No teaching should be accepted merely because it is logical, or because the teacher of it can win in argument with those holding other views.'
`Oh,' exclaimed the man, surprised; `then for what reason should one accept a teaching?'
`You should accept it only if you yourself can prove out of your own experience that it makes for contentment and well-being.'
`I have not heard another teacher speak thus. Can you explain further?'
`If a man spoke harshly to you,' replied the Master, `and you spoke harshly to him in return, answering him point by point with back-biting, what would be the outcome of such words?'
`We should both become very angry,' said the man. `and we might end in blows.'
`You have judged rightly. Would you therefore call such speech blameworthy or praiseworthy?'
`Blameworthy, most certainly, Master. Such words would not make for the well-being of either.'
`If now, your speech were mild and charitable, returning pleasant kind words for those which were harsh, what then would be the outcome?'
`There would be peace and concord between us, and we might even become friends. Such speech would have made for well-being.'
`You have again judged rightly friend. Therefore out of your own experience you have shown that a teaching which commends gentle and kindly speech, is a good teaching. Now, all worthy people teach their disciples these things.'
`At this point the man exclaimed: `Can I become your disciple?'
The Master's smile broadened. `Be careful, friend, how you do that. Did I ask you to become my disciple?'
`No, Master, no.'
`Remember what you were told about me being a conjurer, who knows a glamorous trick. Be careful.'
`The people who told me about you were right,' laughed the young man. `You are indeed a conjurer, but it is a good thing this enticing trick of yours. I wish all my friends to be converted by the same enticement.'
Although the Master had said that no teaching should be accepted merely because it was logical, nevertheless he was very clever at answering arguments point by point in logical argument. But people are not won by clever arguments unless their minds are tending in that direction already.
Those of the sects spoke more truly than they knew when they said the Master wove a spell over people. It was a spell of loving-kindness and compassion, which sought only their zeal and asked nothing in return. It was the magic of his serene joy, which healed the conflict of their hearts, and brought peace and well-being to those who listened. Moreover, it was a magic woven from his own knowledge of the things that troubled men."
A Buddhist Doctrine
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Last edited by accelerator; 07-18-2008 at 12:21 PM..
religion is slavery...Things that are innate to humans are sins...although the bible is a good story, and does give some good rules to live, like do unto others. However,I can make up my own imaginary friends.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,465,196 times
Reputation: 1465
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsavvy
Trav didn't you grow up Catholic? I grew up Mormom. Both faiths believe in some sort of Hell. I don't want to speak for you, but it appears that you have searched for truth such as I have. And we have very similar views but many would say that we are going to "hell". I totally agree on your view of hell. I think many are actually living hell on earth and just don't realize it.
Yes I was raised "catholic" I put it in quotes, because my parents weren't really religious, they are of the kind that will say catholic if asked, but my father has never stepped a foot in a church, besides funerals and the like, and my mom rarely, however my grandmother always asked me to go to church with her which I hated, and my mother decided to send me to cathecism to make my first communion due to peer pressure, something which I hated too and made me rebel everytime the sent me.
Yet my search for truth made me check many religions and beliefs I gave a try to mormonism LOL but nothing made me feel that peace and that contenment I was looking, Until my intuition told me, this is the spiritual path that makes your heart sing, follow it.
Quote:
The point that I'm making is to McGowdog is that you do have options. If your "belief's" don't bring you peace of mind then it may be time to let go of some of them. It sounds like you may be in the "anger phase" of the transition. Many people feel very betrayed when they start to learn the truth about the bible. Keep searching until you start to find peace (even if you stay in the Christian faith), you will then be aligned with the Divine.
Our dear friend couldn't have stated it better, don't listen to no one but your inner self, when you feel that peace now that the divine has talked to you by the voice of your intuition
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But who on this planet hasn't tried to do the same? With the BEST of intentions!
The prophet - IS - the miracle
I guess it would be the same as knowing that the 1 you married is destined to be your better 1/2?
Isn't the saying 'If you see Buddha crossing the street, kill him' not also a Buddhist saying?
