About the Rapture (quote, Satan, God, believers)

[Simple Living]

Originally Posted by yydanay515

I'm not disagreeing with your concept. In some Christian circles that's their belief and with belief you can make up and believe anything by using "faith" and of course believe it as fact. I am referring to a basis some have used, as in this song, that when Jesus spoke about two women at a well and one will be taken while the other left refers to some rapture.

Yes, there are Christians who don't believe in the rapture theory, but believe that Christians will endure the tribulation. They use that scripture you mentioned as proof of it. I lean towards the rapture theory because that's where I've found the most biblical support and interpretive sense.

If it turns out that Christians ARE to endure the tribulation, then I'm willing and ready for that, too. I don't claim to be cemented on my end times doctrine because I can't honestly say that I've had revelation knowledge on the matter (no pun intended.) Either way, Jesus is returning and these events will take place. That much I am 100% certain of.

[Towhee]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

The Latin term for caught up is rapturo. 1 Thes 4:17 "Then we are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord".

I am slow getting back to your response. We ( DH and I ) had a very busy week with our congregation's first yearly Lectureship. It was a great success.

Anyway, I looked up "caught" and "caught up" in the Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible. Those words are not found in that book, (it is for the KJV). I find it strange that it is translated in such a way, from the Latin, where-as the original scriptures were in the Common Greek ??Apparently "caught up" does not have an equivalent in the original New Testament writings. The words translated "taken" and "taken up", are from the Greek. If the words "caught up" were translated from a Greek word, that word would be in that concordance.
What is the Latin for "taken/taken up" ?

If the "caught up" are left out of the Thessalonian's scripture, it would still say that the saved would be with Christ in the clouds ( paraphrasing).

So...I am back to wondering where the "rapture" came from . Was there a Greek word that meant something other than "caught/caught up" that the KJ translaters didn't use, and they substituted the Latin word for it ??? I also noticed that almost all the other translations and interpretations, (that I have), say "caught up", even though there is no Greek word for it This is confusing to me.

[Simple Living]

For those who wonder what the judgment of God will be like. Here's a preview of it for you. It's a full sermon on it. Granted, it's long, but it's biblical. The teacher deals with it biblically, truthfully and, reverently.


The Judgment of God and the Great White Throne

[Simple Living]

Originally Posted by Marianinark

I am slow getting back to your response. We ( DH and I ) had a very busy week with our congregation's first yearly Lectureship. It was a great success.

Anyway, I looked up "caught" and "caught up" in the Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible. Those words are not found in that book, (it is for the KJV). I find it strange that it is translated in such a way, from the Latin, where-as the original scriptures were in the Common Greek ??Apparently "caught up" does not have an equivalent in the original New Testament writings. The words translated "taken" and "taken up", are from the Greek. If the words "caught up" were translated from a Greek word, that word would be in that concordance.
What is the Latin for "taken/taken up" ?

If the "caught up" are left out of the Thessalonian's scripture, it would still say that the saved would be with Christ in the clouds ( paraphrasing).

So...I am back to wondering where the "rapture" came from . Was there a Greek word that meant something other than "caught/caught up" that the KJ translaters didn't use, and they substituted the Latin word for it ??? I also noticed that almost all the other translations and interpretations, (that I have), say "caught up", even though there is no Greek word for it This is confusing to me.

Hi Marian,

The word "rapture" isn't in the Bible. The concept of the rapture, though, is clearly taught in scripture. The rapture is described, for the most part, in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 describes the rapture ("come up hither") as God resurrecting all believers who've died, giving them glorified bodies, and then those believers who are still alive, who've also been given glorified bodies.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 "For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

The word "rapture" comes from the Latin word rapio (rapere, raptus).

It's not just a modern concept. It's been taught since 150 AD.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by Marianinark

I am slow getting back to your response. We ( DH and I ) had a very busy week with our congregation's first yearly Lectureship. It was a great success.

Anyway, I looked up "caught" and "caught up" in the Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible. Those words are not found in that book, (it is for the KJV). I find it strange that it is translated in such a way, from the Latin, where-as the original scriptures were in the Common Greek ??Apparently "caught up" does not have an equivalent in the original New Testament writings. The words translated "taken" and "taken up", are from the Greek. If the words "caught up" were translated from a Greek word, that word would be in that concordance.
What is the Latin for "taken/taken up" ?

If the "caught up" are left out of the Thessalonian's scripture, it would still say that the saved would be with Christ in the clouds ( paraphrasing).

So...I am back to wondering where the "rapture" came from . Was there a Greek word that meant something other than "caught/caught up" that the KJ translaters didn't use, and they substituted the Latin word for it ??? I also noticed that almost all the other translations and interpretations, (that I have), say "caught up", even though there is no Greek word for it This is confusing to me.

I'm glad you had good time. As far the word rapture goes, I don't know about a Greek word for it. I've always heard it came from from the Latin word rapare, which means to take away or snatch out. Regardless I do believe in the rapture.

[Simple Living]

Marian, here's a quote from one of my resources:

The phrase "caught up" in I Thessalonians 4:17 is the Greek word harpazo, which actually means "to be snatched away violently." The Latin equivalent of harpazo is the verb rapio, "to take away by force." In the Latin Vulgate, one of the oldest Bibles in existence, the appropriate tense of rapio appears in verse 17. Raptus is the past participle of rapio. Our English words "rapt" and "rapture" stem from this past participle.

[Towhee]

Originally Posted by Simple Living

Marian, here's a quote from one of my resources:

Quote:
The phrase "caught up" in I Thessalonians 4:17 is the Greek word harpazo, which actually means "to be snatched away violently." The Latin equivalent of harpazo is the verb rapio, "to take away by force." In the Latin Vulgate, one of the oldest Bibles in existence, the appropriate tense of rapio appears in verse 17. Raptus is the past participle of rapio. Our English words "rapt" and "rapture" stem from this past participle. (Unquote)

Thanks, but I am still wondering why the Young's Analytical Concordance did not even give " caught up" for that scripture, or for the 1st Corinthians scripture. It is as if they were not found in the Common Greek at all.
I know translaters added words that were not in the original Greek, in order to make the sentences more readable. I am thinking this must have been the case with those two scriptures.

[Simple Living]

I don't know about the Young's Analytical Concordance, but here are the results from the Strong's Concordance for "caught up" in the KJV. Hope this helps.

KJV Concordance for -"caught up"-

("caught up")
occurs in 4 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (2Cr 12:2 - Rev 12:5)


2Cr 12:2 I knew [1492] (5758) a man [444] in [1722] Christ [5547] above [4253] [0] fourteen [1180] years [2094] ago [4253], (whether [1535] in [1722] the body [4983], I cannot [3756] tell [1492] (5758); or whether [1535] out [1622] of the body [4983], I cannot [3756] tell [1492] (5758): God [2316] knoweth [1492] (5758) such an one [5108] caught up [726] (5651) to [2193] the third [5154] heaven [3772].
2Cr 12:4 How that [3754] he was caught up [726] (5648) into [1519] paradise [3857], and [2532] heard [191] (5656) unspeakable [731] words [4487], which [3739] it is [1832] [0] not [3756] lawful [1832] (5752) for a man [444] to utter [2980] (5658).
1Th 4:17 Then [1899] we [2249] which [3588] are alive [2198] (5723) [and] remain [4035] (5742) shall be caught up [726] (5691) together [260] with [4862] them [846] in [1722] the clouds [3507], to [1519] meet [529] the Lord [2962] in [1519] the air [109]: and [2532] so [3779] shall we [2071] [0] ever [3842] be [2071] (5704) with [4862] the Lord [2962].
Rev 12:5 And [2532] she brought forth [5088] (5627) a man [730] child [5207], who [3739] was [3195] (5719) to rule [4165] (5721) all [3956] nations [1484] with [1722] a rod [4464] of iron [4603]: and [2532] her [846] child [5043] was caught up [726] (5681) unto [4314] God [2316], and [2532] [to] his [846] throne [2362].

Edited to add the results for the verse in Thessalonians, in bold above:

Result of search for "726":
724. harpage har-pag-ay' from 726; pillage (properly abstract):--extortion, ravening, spoiling.

725. harpagmos har-pag-mos' from 726; plunder (properly concrete):--robbery.
726. harpazo har-pad'-zo from a derivative of 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
727. harpax har'-pax from 726; rapacious:--extortion, ravening.
1283. diarpazo dee-ar-pad'-zo from 1223 and 726; to seize asunder, i.e. plunder:--spoil.
2590. karpos kar-pos' probably from the base of 726; fruit (as plucked), literally or figuratively:--fruit.
2897. kraipale krahee-pal'-ay probably from the same as 726; properly, a headache (as a seizure of pain) from drunkenness, i.e. (by implication) a debauch (by analogy, a glut):--surfeiting.
4884. sunarpazo soon-ar-pad'-zo from 4862 and 726; to snatch together, i.e. seize:--catch.

[travelmate38]

Originally Posted by Simple Living

It's not wishful thinking, it's Bible prophecy.

The Bible says that, for the battle of Armageddon, they'll come from the North, South, East and West. Let’s take them one by one:

The North is Russia, Ezekiel 38:15,16. If you draw a line from Israel to the North Pole, you go right straight through Moscow.

Then there’s the king of the South, in Daniel 11:40, and that is Egypt and an Arab Federation. They unite with the king of the North.

Then later, we have the kings of the East. That’s Revelation 16:12, the kings of the sun-rising as China and North Korea and others come across the Euphrates River on their way to Israel. And it’s the bloodiest battle in history – Revelation 9:14-18.

But situated there already is the king of the West, the European Union, who made the peace agreement in the first place, in Daniel 9:26. Now that it’s broken, they are there to defend that part of the world, according to 2 Thessalonians 2:4.


The judgment rendered here is on the saints who were raptured. This takes place in heaven while Satan's wrath is being released on those still on the earth.

As far as asking, "Why is God letting Satan have his way?" I can't answer fully. God is sovereign and there is a reason for everything He does. In His sovereignty, all of these events are ultimately His judgments. But it is clear that some of them are active judgments directly initiated by God, while many of them are passive judgments—initiated by wicked people and Satan, but used by God for His purposes.


Revelation 12:7-8 talk about Satan's final assault on God before the second coming of Jesus. The second coming is different from the rapture. Jesus comes down in the clouds and Christians are caught up with Him there, in the rapture. The second coming is Jesus physically touching down on the earth again to set up His earthly kingdom for 1,000 years.

Actually, there's always been war in heaven, since the fall of Satan. (Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:11-18) Satan and his demons have always actively opposed God's angels and God's people. This war just reaches it's peak during the tribulation period. There isn't much said in the Bible about this battle except that the Archangel Michael and his angels wage war with the dragon.


God allows Satan to be released at the end of the 1,000 year Millennial Reign. The rest of the answer gets complicated, and long, for a message board.

Life will continue in the 1,000 year reign as it does right now. The earth will be reconstructed and repopulated. People, during this time will still be capable of sinning. A vast part of the population, born of the believers (those who missed the rapture and accepted Christ during the Tribulation period) who entered the kingdom, will, in that perfect environment, love their sin and reject the King (Jesus.) Those who were raptured with Christ will be in their glorified bodies, reigning with Him, enforcing God's will and judging disputes.

During this time, Christ rules with unopposed sovereignty, with Satan bound in the pit. At the end of 1000 years, he is released one last time to lead a final rebellion of sinners. The people who survived the Tribulation period, and accepted Jesus during that time, will be redeemed but still have their sinful natures. They won't have their glorified bodies yet, like the saints who were raptured will. Because they still have their sinful natures, sin will still be capable.

When Satan is loosed, he will provide the supernatural leadership needed to bring to the surface all the sin and rebellion left in the universe. He will pull together all the rebels, revealing the true character and intent of those Christ-rejecting sinners, making it evident that God's judgment of them is just.


Hell isn't a place that will be ruled by Satan, like you see in Hollywood movies. It's hell for him, too! He will suffer eternal torment just as everyone else who is there will. Only his, will be worse than everyone elses. Believe me, Satan does NOT want to be in hell.


Hell will make the Great Tribulation look like a walk in the park. It's torment unspeakable and never-ending. Ever. Ever. Ever.

So from what I gather from reading all this, is that you would basically have to reject Christ twice and continue living in sin, when Jesus reigns on earth to be sent to hell? So there is a second chance? Is this correct? If so, don't you think lots of people out there are thinking....."heck, I'll just keep living in sin and get my share, when Jesus comes down, then Ill get my act straight?"

I always was taught once the rapture happens, if you are not right with God, you're basically done for, unless you are willing to live through hell.

Also, what about those who have already died? Do they get a second chance?

[Nikk]

Originally Posted by K-Luv

I would simply ask in the Christian Forum, but I would like to hear from everybody.

Those who are raptured go where? If it is to Heaven, then why is Heaven moved to the Earth? Those who remain can either accept the Mark Of The Beast, or choose to become Born-Again, but if they are Born Again they remain on Earth until everybody comes back, is that correct? And, after Jesus reigns for 1000 years, what happens?

There is no "Rapture" as in all Christians are caught up and go to heaven.

It is just as Jesus left, we will meet him in the air and return with him to earth. This is at the end of the tribulation and things spoken of in Daniel, Rev. etc...

Jesus will reign for a thousand years on earth. During this time Satan will be bound and thrown into the bottomless pit. After the Milenium, Satan is released, he then goes about to do a final decieving and then is thrown into the lake of fire.