A question about angels and demons (prophet, Islamic, worship, punishment)

[Mr Floyd]

braderjoe originally said:

Interesting points from the Christian angle...How about Jewish views on this matter?
In Islam - Satan was not an angel. Angles are totally loyal to God and will never rebel. They are created from light. Satan was from the race of jinns (forget that Aladdin Genie in a bottle fable!) The jinns are a race created from fire long before Man's creation. Man was of course created from earth. Satan held quite a high post in heaven prior to his downfall. His only fault was that he refused to bow down to Adam when ordered to by the Creator. Thus he was cast out and some of the jinns followed him into exile. He of course led Adam and Eve astray. Satan was a handsome being but of course, once cast out, he was cursed with ugliness. He made one final plea to God to allow him to live on and not die until the day of judgement arrives. His agenda now is of course to lead as many of Adam's children astray from the straight path until the End arrives. Those of the jinns that follow him do his biddings. [End Quote]

I was raised Catholic, attended many other Christian churches after that and currently go to an Episcopal church in my hood. The beliefs of religions different than mine all sound like fairy tales. Like the story of Santa Claus with some mystical / magical explanations for the supernatural aspects (Flying sleigh etc.). I imagine that's how devout Muslims feel about the Christian faith and how many of us feel about Mormon beliefs. Doesn't answer the angel question though...

[wilvan]

Originally Posted by Nikk

If you look at the OP the writter is confussed by the language. It says "Chains of Darkness" in the scripture, yet he is thinking "Chains of metal" or something binding the angels in place. The demons can still roam around the earth, because they were cast out of heaven, but they are in darkness, because they rejected God from the beginning.

I think the poster is just confused with the wording.

I think the Bottomless Pit is literally a prison for most of the fallen angels/demons. I suspect they are the more vicious ones who will only be released at the start of the Great Tribulation. The prophecy also tells us Satan will eventually be chained and thrown into the Bottomless Pit during the 1000-yr rule of JC on earth. At the end of the Millennium he will be released to again tempt the humans to rebel.

[wilvan]

Originally Posted by Nikk

This is an error in reasoning. God is all-powerful, that is why he can come back at anytime. But he chose at the beginning to return after certain events take place. Can he come earlier? Yes. Will he come earlier? No. Does this affect his all powerfulness? No.

This is the same error when someone says: If God can do anything, can he lie. The answer is that God can do anything and he chose truth as his identity. God will not chose to lie. You might say that he is not all powerful because he can't lie. The answer is that he is all powerful but he WILL not lie, because he will not.

Yes, God is indeed all powerful and he can do whatever he chose to do. However, he will to stay true to his promise. He gave us the prophecy, the events to watch for... to know when the end is near. We are commanded to keep the Sabbath to be reminded of the Gospel every single week. The Gospel is the soon coming 1000-yr rule of JC after 6000-yr rule of man under the sway of Satan. Therefore he will keep his word and we must watch for the signs to know when we are already near the end of 6000 years. However, God said he will cut short the time for the sake of the elect and JC will come earlier.

Here is my calculation:
6000 yrs divided by 7 = 857 Sabbath Cycles + 1 year.

Daniel's 70th Week, the last 7 yrs of man's rule, is called a "Week" ... which I believe is the last Sabbath Cycle. On the last Sabbath Year JC will come back and possibly that will be the 5999th year. Therefore we know JC will return 1 year ahead of the 6000th year!

[MValentine]

those fallen angels bound in chains are the 200 Watchers (or Grigori) that had children, giants called Nephilim, with human women. God had sent them to teach human beings of divine things and they shared too much. The Flood was sent to destroy the evil Nephilim, who were ravaging the earth, and all those people who were "sinners". Also of note, Lucifer is not actually the same as the "Satan" devil most people refer to. Both Lucifer and Satan are in reality titles, or general terms for an enlightened one and an evil spirit, respectively. Satan roots in Arabic as "Shaitan", evil spirit. Lucifer, latin, essentially "morning star", or the planet Venus.

[pakistan19]

look up azazel and the nephilim the leaders of the fallen angels are bound in chains for example the goat god azazel is bound for eternity for introducing weapons and makeup to humans may sound weird but look into it

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

It is a misconception on your part if you believe that Jesus was suppose to of returned to earth long ago. The Bible is clear that Christ could only return after the return of the Jews to Israel, and after they rebuilt their third temple. The third temple has not been rebuilt yet, and so Christ return cannot happen until sometime after that.

I suggest you peruse the OT again for exactly what their Messiah is supposed to accomplish...or better yet...go talk to an actual Rabbi...because all of those things are supposed to be accomplished in the lifetime of the Messiah...not after the fact...or somewhere far in the future. This is exactly why the Jews DO NOT accept Jesus as Messiah...that is exactly why they are still waiting.

[radchad333]

I don't know if this is true or not. But, I have heard that the chained demons are a portion the demons that are bound awaiting judgment. Their job is to torment the people who are going to hell. The person is locked away awaiting the final judgment. The chained demons job is to torment that person by telling them how foolish they were not to choose Christ. This torment goes on until the final judgment when the person along with all the demons and other people who didn't choose Christ are locked away in Hell for eternity. I don't know if this is true or not. If someone knows anything about this I'd love to find out more. My email is radchad333 at yahoo dot com.

[Radrook]

The angels mentioned in Jude are the ones that participated in genetically contaminating mankind during pre-flood days. The prison spoken about can be understood as a restriction on those activities. The deep gloom, can be a reference to spiritual darkness far from God until they are first abyssed after Armageddon in order to prevent their interference in human affairs for a thousand years and then totally destroyed forever as represented by their being hurled into the symbolic lake of fire after the thousand years are over.

[Theophane]

You should read this Book of Enoch it will answer lots of questions.

The Book of Enoch is not canon.

[Human ego]

1 - bone created the angels:
Ibn Masood said that he (saw Muhammad peace be upon him Gabriel has six hundred wings) that the Prophet peace be upon him said (to me that the latest authorized by the King of the angels of God from the throne that the campaign between the lobe of his ear to his shoulder in the march of seven hundred) 0
Usefulness of the bone to create a campaign Gabriel and the throne is indicative of the magnitude of the Creator 0

2 - They are not described masculinity and femininity do not eat, drink or get bored or tired, but they worship God and obey him tirelessly and boring (swim day and night without ceasing)
Interest and this motivates us to continue many of worship and God by us and we are rich to the poor 0

3 - Description of God's angels as U (Cram justified): the cream he created them, Hassan Sharif, morals and actions pure full Barh 0
Hence the benefit of the holder of the Koran wanting to be on the creation of cream in his actions and his words and follow the guidance of Mustafa t 0

4 - the infallibility of all the angels of sin He says (and do what they are commanded.)
Interest we must follow their example in the infallibility that Nasm ourselves from sin and sin 0

5 - models from the worship of angels (Hajj - praise - alignment - and the fear of God and fear him) he says (who are in awe of fear) 0
When we see the benefit of the worship of angels Nhakr our worship to God and so as not to be deceived by any of the people to worship him 0
0000 # # #


· Book world of the jinn and Ahatin
• to not prove anything to the jinn and devils do not refute them, unless there is evidence that properly express the metaphysical world
· Belief in the existence of the jinn and devils firmly on him (Say that it inspired a group of jinn listened)
· God has given the jinn of not giving it to humans, including the (speed of movement / ability to shape), however no authority over them on the righteous slaves of Allaah, but may escape the devil of a person insured and fled Omar (may Allah be pleased with him) and that the power of faith
· We must strengthen our faith in science and trust in God Almighty All things and stop at the limits of Allah Almighty. We must follow the Prophet (peace be upon him) in order reciting the morning and evening prayer to enter the house and get out of it and adhkaar sleep and others to protect us from demons.

# # #

Book of the apostles and messages:
· We must believe in all prophets and apostles.
· Almighty said praising the Prophet r (you are creating a great) we must follow the Prophet r in all his words and his actions.
· Prove that all the prophets and apostles of the male interpretation of the meaning (and we sent before you except men, suggesting to them).
Not to disrespect any profession of professions, this prophet of God, David was mourning for making armor, and u Zacharias was a carpenter, and the Prophet r working a shepherd.

# # #

Book Paradise and Hell:

· Firm belief in the existence of Heaven and Hell, and that Paradise is the abode pious, and that the fire house criminals.
· The belief that the fire was created, Tbesran her eyes, ears and you hear, and the language spoken.
· We must seek refuge from the fire and torment, and to ask God Paradise and its delights, he said, r (what he asked one of God's Paradise three times, but said Paradise: God enter Paradise, and seeks refuge with a Muslim man of God from the fire three times, but said the fire: O Allah reward me)
· Frequent mention of Paradise and its delights us to a lot of good deeds and dedication which