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There is one other element that I think should be addressed. And this has nothing to do with enrollment. It has to do with respect. The one element I find different between the poseurs and people of spirit is respect. I watched too many in the Taos area acquire Kachina's, Totems, Fetishes and artifacts and wear or display them without consideration of their meaning. Turquoise is more than a pretty rock. Silver is more than a metal. The spirits of a nation can be found in the Kachinas. To take a religious artifact like a Kachina and put it on a mantle over the fireplace along with the santa claus stockings and a creche is, to me, disrespecting the entire nation and their traditions. A Kachina is more than a pretty statue. Old ones were given offerings. Too many are made today to feed the tourist industry and, like crucifixes, are sold to non-believers.
I have my traditions, and I would not dishonor yours any more than I would accept your dishonoring mine.
As I have mentioned I am an appraiser. One of the things lenders do not want is someone claiming they were denied a loan for being black, Muslim, female, gay, handicapped, or any of the other protected classes. Consequently when we take pictures for an appraisal report we try to leave people and indications of the people out of the photos. I always try to take pictures of bathrooms, kitchens, living areas, fireplaces, etc. Frequently there are personal items on the fireplace mantle. I always ask the home owner/occupant to move them so I can get a picture. I do not simply go up and turn the picture down, or move the incense burner, or menorah. I am not of their faith. My handling their religious and personal objects is (or could be) disrespectful. Not knowing their traditions, I can do it wrong.
Respect for others beliefs, others faiths....not judging, not imposing my perceptions on them.....honoring their traditions without trying to be them......this is essential.............its called respect
you know this may be alittle off here but it kinda goes with what you saying about people taking things such as katchina dolls and using them as decor- i feel that way about jewlery and things sold at powwows and stand on our reservations. I see many older white people or non ndns i should say buying these things up at powwows or on reservation and they have no idea what goes into the making of the earrings they just bought or the time it took to make that necklace, i make jewlery i do some leather work trying to do more, and have been told many times by my friends that i should put up a stand and sell my stuff, but i just cant. i know what i put into my jewlery and i see how its not valued any differently than regular ol costume jewlery ndns here know what i mean. these people come down to get a feel for native culture but do not understand and only take it as fun thing to do on a saturday.
you know this may be alittle off here but it kinda goes with what you saying about people taking things such as katchina dolls and using them as decor- i feel that way about jewlery and things sold at powwows and stand on our reservations. I see many older white people or non ndns i should say buying these things up at powwows or on reservation and they have no idea what goes into the making of the earrings they just bought or the time it took to make that necklace, i make jewlery i do some leather work trying to do more, and have been told many times by my friends that i should put up a stand and sell my stuff, but i just cant. i know what i put into my jewlery and i see how its not valued any differently than regular ol costume jewlery ndns here know what i mean. these people come down to get a feel for native culture but do not understand and only take it as fun thing to do on a saturday.
It's not however necessarily their innate duty to learn the culture because they shop there. As they see it, they are visiting an area, like any other country, it has its customs, its ways of being, its ways of believing and its ways of living. They buy something to remind them of what they did experience of that culture and then leave. Though it can only ever remind them of what they experienced within that culture.
The fact is, these items aren't being made to be sold to those living on the reservation when they're on a road side stall, or an on reservation stall. These items are being sold for the tourists to buy. They aren't being treated as sacred, or culturally significant items for use within that culture, they are being sold to tourists.
If one has a problem with that, then educating the tourists as to what goes into that item, or what it may mean is the only way they'll then understand the kind of reverance that is required when handling it. What it means to the culture they visited, and what it should mean to them.
The fact is Native American cultures are amongst the hardest to grasp for an outsider of any culture I've ever experienced, and I've made it my business to experience as many as possible. After years of talking to, living with, and respectfully asking questions of Native Americans from various nations, I still don't actually get it. I feel sometimes I begin to scratch the surface of what may be 'common sense' spiritually within those cultures to a point, but that's it. The fact is, without being brought up in that culture and truly understanding it, I don't feel it's necessarily possible for an outsider to fully appreciate what some of these items mean. So either they should not be sold, or the person should be educated by the people of that culture as much as is practically possible, to give them just a peek as to what that item means at the point at which it is sold.
After all, if you freely sell something, and never inform the person that there are conditions that need to be respected with regards that item, you can't be annoyed at them if they don't then understand innately and without being told what those conditions are.
The fact is, these items aren't being made to be sold to those living on the reservation when they're on a road side stall, or an on reservation stall. These items are being sold for the tourists to buy. They aren't being treated as sacred, or culturally significant items for use within that culture, they are being sold to tourists.
I agree with this post for the most part. I snipped only for brevity BTW. The native artists who sell their wares do so knowing that these will be decorative items for display or wear. They have to make a living too, and thankfully there are laws like the Indian Arts and Craft Act of 1990 to protect both the native artist and the consumer.
We also have to keep in mind that many items, like jewelries or beadwork, did not necessarily have any sort of spiritual significance. Among Comanches, for example, a lot of stuff we wore/wear or beadwork we make is often "just because we like it". I think it is fair to say that its the same for other Nations.
As to Kachinas and items like that, I can't really say as I'm not from those nations. I think that if it were a problem, I would expect that elders from the Zuni, Hopi, etc to say something about it. Maybe they have. I don't know.
If an artist were to sell actual sacred items from their tribe, then I would hope that a) they received permission to do so and b) they would take the time to make the buyer understand what they were buying. That being said, in some of these areas, making some extra money to buy food will sometimes come before reverence for an item. Indians are people too ya know.
The thing that will irk me sometimes is when these non-Indians go to these rez's and buy up a bunch of stuff from the artists for pittance, then go and resell them to the tourists or at their stores for exorbitant prices. To me, this is cheating both the artist and the consumer. I advise people to buy direct from the artist. This way you are supporting Indian people directly and also know what you are getting. It is not unknown for some of these resellers to buy Taiwanese junk and sell them as being Indian made.
.........It is not unknown for some of these guys to buy Taiwanese junk and sell them as being Indian made.
...........or assembly line mass produced Navajo Industries junk...........compare a Navajo Industries Hopi style jewelry to a signed Hopi piece sometime.........it is amazing the difference in craftsmanship and artistic talent.
... hollywood style shenanigans that aren't in any way based on actual Cherokee spiritual teachings based on no time actually living within that culture, actually damage that culture to a point...
Spank316,
First of all, Yakoke! (thank you!).
Second, I often wonder why all of these shenanigans (an Irish word, btw) have latched onto the Cherokee way as "the" way. Ya know???
... I like the words that Broken Medicine Eagle once quoted; Being Indian is an attitude, a state of mind, a way of being in harmony with all things and all beings. It is allowing the heart to be the distributor of energy on the planet; to allow feelings and sensitivities to determine where energy goes; bringing aliveness up from the Earth and from the Sky, putting it in and giving it out from the heart.
The one element I find different between the poseurs and people of spirit is respect. I watched too many in the Taos area acquire Kachina's, Totems, Fetishes and artifacts and wear or display them without consideration of their meaning. Turquoise is more than a pretty rock. Silver is more than a metal. The spirits of a nation can be found in the Kachinas. To take a religious artifact like a Kachina and put it on a mantle over the fireplace along with the santa claus stockings and a creche is, to me, disrespecting the entire nation and their traditions.
[snip!]
Respect for others beliefs, others faiths....not judging, not imposing my perceptions on them.....honoring their traditions without trying to be them......this is essential.............its called respect
But my mothers mothers father was on the old settler roles, not the Dawes commission roles. My mothers mother refused to acknowledge her Cherokee heritage......she was raised where to be an ndn was to be lower in society than a black.....or a n**** in her language.
My mother also said same thing when I a small child telling me you should not tell people you were NDN because then you would be considered "colored" and regarded in the same way as black people. When I went to school in a tiny east TN community there were two race options we got to select from on school papers and even end of the year exams... "white" & "colored". I was told to put white in order to be treated better.
My maternal-maternal greatgrandfather used to get spit on for being NDN when he walked into town because he looked like an NDN as my grandmother used to say. My maternal-fraternal greatgrandmother told me "Never tell anyone you are Cherokee because they will hurt you". Turns out some of the ones that will hurt you the most are you own people.
While I understand and don't necessarily disagree with how some papered Cherokee feel about this issue, I do find it insulting that some of the ones that have papers and live on both Eastern and Western Tsalagi land have blond hair & blue eyes while there are others non-papered that look more Tsalagi because we HAVE more degree of NDN blood than some of the papered NDNS. I find it even worse the ones who are fullblood or mixed blood, but have papers yet do not live as a Cherokee and practice the old ways. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs on the subject, but this is mine.
I agree with this post for the most part. I snipped only for brevity BTW. The native artists who sell their wares do so knowing that these will be decorative items for display or wear. They have to make a living too, and thankfully there are laws like the Indian Arts and Craft Act of 1990 to protect both the native artist and the consumer.
We also have to keep in mind that many items, like jewelries or beadwork, did not necessarily have any sort of spiritual significance. Among Comanches, for example, a lot of stuff we wore/wear or beadwork we make is often "just because we like it". I think it is fair to say that its the same for other Nations.
As to Kachinas and items like that, I can't really say as I'm not from those nations. I think that if it were a problem, I would expect that elders from the Zuni, Hopi, etc to say something about it. Maybe they have. I don't know.
If an artist were to sell actual sacred items from their tribe, then I would hope that a) they received permission to do so and b) they would take the time to make the buyer understand what they were buying. That being said, in some of these areas, making some extra money to buy food will sometimes come before reverence for an item. Indians are people too ya know.
The thing that will irk me sometimes is when these non-Indians go to these rez's and buy up a bunch of stuff from the artists for pittance, then go and resell them to the tourists or at their stores for exorbitant prices. To me, this is cheating both the artist and the consumer. I advise people to buy direct from the artist. This way you are supporting Indian people directly and also know what you are getting. It is not unknown for some of these resellers to buy Taiwanese junk and sell them as being Indian made.
sort of along the lines of what i was trying to say
sort of along the lines of what i was trying to say
you said it well. So did fullback (not bad for a Choctaw)
This is how circles work.
you share your perception, I share mine, ptsum his, nighteyes shares his, fullback (we try not to tap our toes when he speaks) shares his, everyone contributes as they see fit........each of us grow. Each of us increase in understanding. this is not like a Christian building. No one stands in front of everyone lecturing on how things should be. Jesus talked about how a congregation should be in a group, a circle. No leader, no "facilitator." Just individuals with a connection with the creator sharing their perspective. No one stands above another. Each of us gleans what we hear and what impacts us, no one gets the same message. We grow, and it is good. To me, this is the circle.
For those not privy to our humor, I tease the Choctaw, and the Comanche, the Kiowa and the Sioux because I respect them and honor them and love them as brothers. Ptsum and other Tsa La Ghi ARE brothers and given the chance I tease them too.......if I had no respect or affection for them, I would ignore them, not tease and joke with them.
Osay
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