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So You Finally Admit that God can indeed Exist. But you don't care because you simply want to attack Christianity & are using atheism as a weapon to harm that religion.
I meet The God of Israel all the time & He also manifests in all the ways that other religions depict their Gods. He is a vastly complex & infinitely powerful entity that cannot be described in one book or one religion.
You simply need to stay away from the Christian church because what you are doing is called Hate Speech & Hate Crimes. Attacking folk simply because of their religion. It is a very serious crime
I think I want to step in here for a bit.
I don't think many atheists here would say that god does not exist. Rather most of us say that there is no real evidence that god exists...other than the bible...and therefore we don't believe he exists. That may be too fine a point for you, but it is a logical point of view, and we feel the right point of view. That we see so many inconsistencies in the bible as to make it overall totally undependable. It's sort of like a guy who is known to lie half the time, you therefore cannot trust him at all. And the biggest issue -- at least for me -- is that the god of the old testament seems to be a totally different being than the god of the new testament.
As far as this god of yours, if we want to accept -- for the point of discussion -- that there is a god of everyone, then there are a couple of BIG issues that need to be sorted out.
1. Why are all these religions around the world so drastically different. Not just a little different. Drastically different.
2. If everyone is "god's people" -- why do they fight so much to prove that their religion is the right religion, and condemn people that don't belong to their religion? Because it that's the way it is, then god seems to have done a pretty lousy job of things. He must be a terrible communicator who can't get his word out very well.
3. If everyone that has a personal relationship with god (which is what you're claiming) has a different version of what god is and how he acts...well, why all the confusion and disagreement?
4. Why should we believe you over everyone else with that different "relationship with god"?
OK..glad to hear. So next time I see a Christian speak on a subject they're not formally trained in, you'll support them?
Seems like you always go to excess.
Let's take a religious example of what I mean -- the debate about christianity and religion. I'm not talking about us discussing evolution in this thread. I'm talking about discussing discussions.
Because I was an earth science teacher, there were quite a few times in my earlier years when people -- usually christians -- would want to debate evolution with me. Fine. The problem was that they didn't know what evolution actually said. They spouted what right wing christian ministers said about evolution as being what evolution says. That's not the same thing. The problem was that most of these people that I talked with about evolution had never done any independent reading on it and had never learned what evolution actually says. They wanted to discuss the topic from a woefully wrong knowledge base.
That is unlike many of us atheists here who spent years going to church, years reading the bible, years being among other christians. And, many of us still keep up with religious matters to one degree or another.
Years ago, when I was deep into my college work in geology, I waited for a JW to ring the doorbell, and one day one finally did (they came around about four times a year where we lived). I invited him in. I listened silently for nearly a half hour to his spiel. Then he asked if I had any questions. I pounced. "What about evolution?" "Oh I can prove to you through the scriptures that the whole idea of evolution is evil". And he furiously began flipping through his bible, and for a good fifteen minutes he'd flip through one book or another of the bible and never found what he was looking for. Now that was a missionary. Would you say he was "formally trained"? And just for the record, I brought up a couple of other controversial topics, and he couldn't find those passages either.
So why don't you tell us what you mean by formal training.
And beyond that, you seem to jump to the conclusion that formal training means one is right. If so, then a formally trained geologist talking about evolution is right.
Spirits have been seen & recorded on camera & audio billions of times, answering questions & speaking. That is proof that atheists are wrong & the spiritual side of life is real after all. Jesus was killed by old testament believers. Even He didn't agree with Christianity or the religion that christianity has adopted as half of its belief system. He didn't see eye to eye with the old religionists & He stated that God is a spirit. And science says the bible is not scientifically correct therefore God cannot exist. But the world has endless proof that Spirits do indeed exist & therefore God most likely exists after all.
So there is no argument except the one where religions duke it out to see who is the right one. But remember, Jesus rejected christianity too in the sense that he rejected a lot of the old testament stuff. Those are the facts me hearties. Deal with it
For the sake of discussion, let's assume that there ARE "spirits". This does not at all prove the Bible is true, anymore than it proves Harry Potter is true. It would only prove that there are spirits.
So You Finally Admit that God can indeed Exist. But you don't care because you simply want to attack Christianity & are using atheism as a weapon to harm that religion.
I meet The God of Israel all the time & He also manifests in all the ways that other religions depict their Gods. He is a vastly complex & infinitely powerful entity that cannot be described in one book or one religion.
You simply need to stay away from the Christian church because what you are doing is called Hate Speech & Hate Crimes. Attacking folk simply because of their religion. It is a very serious crime
So you rant about atheists, but don't even know what the term means. Of course atheists "admit" that a god can exist. Lacking belief in a particular deity does not equal hate speech/crimes.
So you rant about atheists, but don't even know what the term means. Of course atheists "admit" that a god can exist. Lacking belief in a particular deity does not equal hate speech/crimes.
I'm glad you brought up the hate crime bit again. I meant to comment on it before and got involved in something else.
That claim is nothing less than bizarre.
People -- at least in this country -- have every right to question and criticize any religious teaching. Having lived in a country where that is not necessarily true, I know what the opposite is like. And people who don't think religion should be criticized or even condemned are afraid. Perhaps our other poster would like to go back to the days of the Inquisition, because that type of thinking is what happens when one thinks that religion should be free from criticism.
I'm glad you brought up the hate crime bit again. I meant to comment on it before and got involved in something else. That claim is nothing less than bizarre. People -- at least in this country -- have every right to question and criticize any religious teaching. Having lived in a country where that is not necessarily true, I know what the opposite is like. And people who don't think religion should be criticized or even condemned are afraid. Perhaps our other poster would like to go back to the days of the Inquisition, because that type of thinking is what happens when one thinks that religion should be free from criticism.
yet another irrational statement.
"people who don't think New Atheism should be criticized or even condemned are afraid"
"people who don't think women should be criticized or even condemned are afraid."
"people who don't think black people should be criticized or even condemned are afraid."
that does not make sense. at all.
religion is not a monolith. women are not a monolith. black people are not a monolith.
however those who justify and promote and defend and rationalize "let's bash religion" "let's bash women" "let's bash black people"
are placing themselves firmly on the spectrum and aligning with precisely the mindset that does commit hate crimes.
that is exactly what the post above is aligning with. it is a skewed thought process that is alarming and disturbing.
and very very transparent.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-06-2019 at 11:28 AM..
"people who don't think New Atheism should be criticized or even condemned are afraid"
"people who don't think women should be criticized or even condemned are afraid."
"people who don't think black people should be criticized or even condemned are afraid."
that does not make sense. at all.
religion is not a monolith. women are not a monolith. black people are not a monolith.
however those who justify and promote and defend and rationalize "let's bash religion" "let's bash women" "let's bash black people"
are placing themselves firmly on the spectrum and aligning with precisely the mindset that does commit hate crimes.
that is exactly what the post above is aligning with. it is a skewed thought process that is alarming and disturbing.
and very very transparent.
Actually yes to all three of those statements...not in every case, but in general.
Religious people who are really secure in their feelings about the status of religion in America, didn't come up with the old Moral Majority type of thinking where they are ready to fight for their ideals. Literally. Proclaimed as such. Hiring lobbyists. Legal cases. Protests. Those christians are afraid they are losing their power and influence in this country.
Atheists are coming from the opposite direction, but still fear. Fear that they will continue to be treated as second class citizens. Fear that the dominance of christians in this country will continue to have an almost daily effect on their lives.
Women have fears, too. A fear of being relegated to less pay for equal work. Of not getting promotions.
Do we really need to talk about why Black people have fears about their place in society? Do you not keep up with the daily news? Are you unaware that the KKK has simply been replaced by The Proud Boys and similar groups?
"people who don't think New Atheism should be criticized or even condemned are afraid"
"people who don't think women should be criticized or even condemned are afraid."
"people who don't think black people should be criticized or even condemned are afraid."
that does not make sense. at all.
religion is not a monolith. women are not a monolith. black people are not a monolith.
however those who justify and promote and defend and rationalize "let's bash religion" "let's bash women" "let's bash black people"
are placing themselves firmly on the spectrum and aligning with precisely the mindset that does commit hate crimes.
that is exactly what the post above is aligning with. it is a skewed thought process that is alarming and disturbing.
and very very transparent.
What's irrational is to equate an idea with people and then pretend that ideas deserve the same treatment as do people. No, religious beliefs are NOT above scrutiny or even <gasp> criticism. Also, there is no need to pass them the salt.
Actually yes to all three of those statements...not in every case, but in general.Religious people who are really secure in their feelings about the status of religion in America, didn't come up with the old Moral Majority type of thinking where they are ready to fight for their ideals. Literally. Proclaimed as such. Hiring lobbyists. Legal cases. Protests. Those christians are afraid they are losing their power and influence in this country. Atheists are coming from the opposite direction, but still fear. Fear that they will continue to be treated as second class citizens. Fear that the dominance of christians in this country will continue to have an almost daily effect on their lives. Women have fears, too. A fear of being relegated to less pay for equal work. Of not getting promotions. Do we really need to talk about why Black people have fears about their place in society? Do you not keep up with the daily news? Are you unaware that the KKK has simply been replaced by The Proud Boys and similar groups? Fear is a great motivator.
inciting fear is inciting hate. inciting others to fear is a behavior used by those who are hatemongers.
hatemonger - "one who arouses hatred for others. depreciator, detractor, disparager, knocker - one who disparages or belittles the worth of something."
that is the mindset and the behavior you continue to exhibit. the behavior of deprecating, disparaging, denigrating, belittling is used to incite hate.
see if you can instead talk about behaviors. without labeling any groups.
can you do that? I have yet to see it from you. when you can do that there can be rational discourse. until then, it is absent.
"people who don't think New Atheism should be criticized or even condemned are afraid"
"people who don't think women should be criticized or even condemned are afraid."
"people who don't think black people should be criticized or even condemned are afraid."
that does not make sense. at all.
religion is not a monolith. women are not a monolith. black people are not a monolith.
however those who justify and promote and defend and rationalize "let's bash religion" "let's bash women" "let's bash black people"
are placing themselves firmly on the spectrum and aligning with precisely the mindset that does commit hate crimes.
that is exactly what the post above is aligning with. it is a skewed thought process that is alarming and disturbing.
and very very transparent.
There is one Big difference: Atheists aren't afraid of being shown that their argument are poor, the religious are. Please don't deny this, Tzaph, because we (atheists) have rather occupied R/s because our arguments are better.
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