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Witnessing is like history, it's up to you to believe it or not even in the case that it's a truth.
Jude 1:9 (NIV)
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!"
Isaiah 14:15-17 (NIV)
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.
Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: “Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble,
the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?”
If it's written down in a big book it must be true. Right?
And, come to think of it, anybody else's goshdarn holy book!!
So there!!
And anybody that tells ya' different is hollerin' outta the wrong holy book!!*
* This lesson in Fundamentalism is brought to you by your friendly, neighbourhood Animist. If you think/feel it to be of some worth, please touch the next tree or plant you pass and thank it for its service. And the next bird for its song. And the breeze for its bracing coolness...and so on.
Anything is possible, but it's far more likely that harmful behavior in humans is caused by ignorance, unawareness of one's feelings and inability to manage them, various kinds of immaturity, fear, tribal thought patterns, and the like. The human race is clawing its way out of a very deep hole of superstition and fear and ignorance, and some are rising above all that better than others.
Sounds like a good naturalist explanation. Nothing wrong with it, but the very nature of evil versus good demands and explanation. I suppose you could speculate that it is just part of the natural selection process. There may, however, be a more profound explanation.
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This is a view (unwarranted and unsubstantiated in my view) that righteousness and evil are things-in-themselves rather than emergent behavioral patterns, and that they emanate from certain beings (god, Satan) and somehow influence the mood and decisions of other beings. I see no basis to think this to be so. You are welcome to present evidence to substantiate the notion, but I don't now where it would come from.
Any evidence to the contrary of what you state requires faith beyond evidence. We have the Bible and prophets first hand experience with God. Those accounts reveal a loving God with awesome characteristics. The problem with personal testimony is it lacks empirical evidence.
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You are simply quoting theistic legends here, mixed with your own speculations. Besides, it's illogical on its face. If god created the universe to imprison and punish Satan then why would he have the prison walls encompass Earth so we're locked in with him? When you imprison someone you place meaningful restrictions and sanctions on them, you don't give them an entire universe that also happens to be the place where a bunch of sentient beings and their families and loved ones are trying to eke out an existence, and then give him carte blanche such that in the end you have to "save" the human race you put in harm's way in the first place and end up having to destroy the heavens and earth and remake them anyway. That would be nuts.
Here are my ideas regarding your very astute observation. Satan is a immortal being. God created the universe to imprison him (it) because he was causing havoc in heaven, he pretended to be a god and attacked and hurt the other angels. Yes, the entire universe is Satan's prison. For reasons I don't entirely understand, God created paradise on earth. As expected, Satan came in from the universe and disrupted things. God and His angels went back to heaven and paradise ceased to exist. There is more to the story but that is part of it. Unfortunately, humans are collateral damage from the fall of paradise. Applying human reasoning, it doesn't make sense. However, not a lot makes sense about the human condition without understanding supernatural causes.
Sounds like a good naturalist explanation. Nothing wrong with it, but the very nature of evil versus good demands and explanation. I suppose you could speculate that it is just part of the natural selection process. There may, however, be a more profound explanation.
Any evidence to the contrary of what you state requires faith beyond evidence. We have the Bible and prophets first hand experience with God. Those accounts reveal a loving God with awesome characteristics. The problem with personal testimony is it lacks empirical evidence.
Here are my ideas regarding your very astute observation. Satan is a immortal being. God created the universe to imprison him (it) because he was causing havoc in heaven, he pretended to be a god and attacked and hurt the other angels. Yes, the entire universe is Satan's prison. For reasons I don't entirely understand, God created paradise on earth. As expected, Satan came in from the universe and disrupted things. God and His angels went back to heaven and paradise ceased to exist. There is more to the story but that is part of it. Unfortunately, humans are collateral damage from the fall of paradise. Applying human reasoning, it doesn't make sense. However, not a lot makes sense about the human condition without understanding supernatural causes.
Earl, I have a hunch that you and Eusie are brothers from another mother.
* This lesson in Fundamentalism is brought to you by your friendly, neighbourhood Animist. If you think/feel it to be of some worth, please touch the next tree or plant you pass and thank it for its service. And the next bird for its song. And the breeze for its bracing coolness...and so on.
I thanked the Moon during the eclipse. It was a beautiful show.
I thanked the Moon during the eclipse. It was a beautiful show.
As did I and it/she was.
Though she played coy with me, draped with clouds now and again, I saw enough to appreciate the dance of light, colour and shadow.
And almost by the minute, as I look around me here, leaves are turning yellow, orange and red as they drift from, or still cling to, their mother limbs. It's a wonderful time of year for the voyeur, as summer takes her last bow and autumn prepares to strut his stuff.
Any evidence to the contrary of what you state requires faith beyond evidence. We have the Bible and prophets first hand experience with God. Those accounts reveal a loving God with awesome characteristics. The problem with personal testimony is it lacks empirical evidence.
Alas and alack, you are correct.
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Originally Posted by earl012
Unfortunately, humans are collateral damage from the fall of paradise. Applying human reasoning, it doesn't make sense. However, not a lot makes sense about the human condition without understanding supernatural causes.
My personal experience was that inserting the supernatural into anything muddies the waters and makes the human condition less, rather than more, comprehensible.
The problem is that for many, the supernatural avoids what WC Fields once referred to as "taking the bull by the tail and facing the situation full on" when it comes to the human condition. Our existential lot is not pretty, flattering, or comforting if we think life is all (or AT all) about us or if we insist on notions of "fairness" or "justice" or "closure" for US. Once you let go of the narrative that life owes you something and allow it to be what it is, no more and no less, then the superficial appeal of the supernatural fades away, your expectations are reset, and you can find meaning, purpose and enjoyment within the framework of what actually exists.
My personal experience was that inserting the supernatural into anything muddies the waters and makes the human condition less, rather than more, comprehensible.
It depends on how you regard God. I believe after the fall of paradise, except for a brief period with his chosen people, God has assumed a policy of nonintervention.
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The problem is that for many, the supernatural avoids what WC Fields once referred to as "taking the bull by the tail and facing the situation full on" when it comes to the human condition. Our existential lot is not pretty, flattering, or comforting if we think life is all (or AT all) about us or if we insist on notions of "fairness" or "justice" or "closure" for US. Once you let go of the narrative that life owes you something and allow it to be what it is, no more and no less, then the superficial appeal of the supernatural fades away, your expectations are reset, and you can find meaning, purpose and enjoyment within the framework of what actually exists.
For me, laws of nature work perfectly well. And I don't blame God for what goes wrong. Mostly, our choices determine our destiny. I hear Christians praising God when things go well, but are perplexed when things go bad. I say, that is life.
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