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Old 01-13-2014, 12:10 PM
 
136 posts, read 176,445 times
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I'm not a believer, but I attend church with my parents. Our denomination practices infant baptism. Now that I'm older and wiser, the whole thing looks to me like some sort of bizarre fascist ceremony. When a couple in the church has a baby, they get brought in front of the whole congregation, the pastor smiles and comments on what a beautiful baby it is, makes the parents publicly affirm that they will raise him/her to be a good Christian, and then the pastor sprinkles water on its head and says that its now a member of the "Covenant Family" or whatever.

Does this seem weird to anyone else?

These are the images that come to my mind:





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Old 01-15-2014, 07:38 PM
 
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Ancient rituals born in times of great ignorance are still practiced by those that cling to ancient superstition and ignorance.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:58 PM
 
Location: kS.
505 posts, read 574,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathGreetsMeWarm View Post
I'm not a believer, but I attend church with my parents. Our denomination practices infant baptism. Now that I'm older and wiser, the whole thing looks to me like some sort of bizarre fascist ceremony. When a couple in the church has a baby, they get brought in front of the whole congregation, the pastor smiles and comments on what a beautiful baby it is, makes the parents publicly affirm that they will raise him/her to be a good Christian, and then the pastor sprinkles water on its head and says that its now a member of the "Covenant Family" or whatever.

Does this seem weird to anyone else?

These are the images that come to my mind:




Tho the Hitler reference is off the wall, yes, infant Baptism is not Christian nor Biblical. SOME denominations believe that if the parents baptize the child that he/she is somehow saved from all future sins.

Water baptism is an purposeful outward sign to other people that the person has had an inward change (born-again experience). Baby baptism is nothing more than a baby dedication in truth although the parents may not even realize it.
Children cannot make the decision to get water baptizes on their own. Even if they could there is no need to. All children are innocent in God's eyes until the age when they become accountable. They must know right from wrong and willingly choose to sin; to be disobedient over being obedient to God. Until that sin children do not need salvation.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,892,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathGreetsMeWarm View Post
Does this seem weird to anyone else?
I'm an Atheist and baptism does not seem weird to me. My son had his daughters baptized and I thought both ceremonies were very nice.

By the way, it is generally agreed that the first person to compare something to Hitler loses the argument.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:19 PM
 
995 posts, read 955,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I'm an Atheist and baptism does not seem weird to me. My son had his daughters baptized and I thought both ceremonies were very nice.

By the way, it is generally agreed that the first person to compare something to Hitler loses the argument.

YHWH has his "chosen people" commit 40 or so genocides, and murders any "chosen person" who tries to break away from the cult. Hitler and Charles Manson do come to mind..........
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:56 PM
 
63,779 posts, read 40,038,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joint heir with jesus View Post
Tho the Hitler reference is off the wall, yes, infant Baptism is not Christian nor Biblical. SOME denominations believe that if the parents baptize the child that he/she is somehow saved from all future sins.
Water baptism is an purposeful outward sign to other people that the person has had an inward change (born-again experience). Baby baptism is nothing more than a baby dedication in truth although the parents may not even realize it.
Children cannot make the decision to get water baptizes on their own. Even if they could there is no need to. All children are innocent in God's eyes until the age when they become accountable. They must know right from wrong and willingly choose to sin; to be disobedient over being obedient to God. Until that sin children do not need salvation.
Baptism has nothing to do with any ritual . . . but the magic believers will never acknowledge that. AFTER His baptism by John . . . Jesus still said He had a baptism to be baptised with.

Luke 12:50 (New King James Version)

50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!

It was overcoming the distress and pain of scourging and crucifixion that was His real baptism. Our baptism is to overcome and endure to the end using self-control over our inner drives to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. It has nothing to do with ritual or easy believism.
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:46 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,211,173 times
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Baptism as it is mentioned in the bible refers firstly to the remission of sins by John the baptist.

The sprinkling is said to be derived from sprinkling with blood of bulls of infants for the purpose of sacrifice to Baal whether that is figurative or literal, I don't know.

There is not enough scripts to suggest that even adult baptism was by immersion or by a jug of water but evangelicals believe that it is by immersion and then they argue if it be one or three dunks. I have seen the ritual performed by jug, single dunk and three dunks in different churches to dunking in the sea.

It is supposed to symbolise a public declaration of conversion these days and there is no magic in baptism, merely a ritual of the various cults that weigh it with the value they seem fit.

It is likely that infant baptism pre dates christianity to dedicate infants to pagan gods. Since infant mortality was high in the old days, the hell doctrines et al, baptising infants was a protection that they would ascend to heaven should they die as babies; the RCC merely incorporated this in their doctrines as they were inventing the religion.

Often debates argue the thief on the cross, "today you shall be with me in paradise" when he converted w/o baptism verses the need to evangelise and baptise converts. Then you really are not saved until you are baptised in the holy spirit and babble in tongues and so on.

Supposedly, baptism is supposed to represent death in christ and resurrection as a new person. This never happens as they all merely emerge as wet sinners. The "old man" is supposed to stay buried and what emerges is supposed to be a new creature in christ. Going by what we observe in RL, these folk really do not change that much and then it becomes the devil's fault that the old man is still around.

I was personally done with the jug and a ceremony with immersion so by all accounts, this atheist is twice saved

Taking the aspects of confessionals whether to someone else or by self proclamation, the need to do penance in whatever form of delcaring oneself a worm, unworthy etc. it really makes the whole idea of jesus dying for our sins pretty moot.

Like they say, there is no such thing as a free lunch. You are never going to be able to declare you are sinless unless you do some good works whatever that is supposed to mean.

The church of christ folk are really very into this and will do anything to get you dunked asap before the koolaide wears off. My buddy converted at a friday night youth meeting and then they immediately went to the church to baptise him before he could change his mind.

Just like conversion, there is coercion and stories used to guilt folk into taking the "final step"

Pretty silly idea when you really examine the practices.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:23 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joint heir with jesus View Post
Tho the Hitler reference is off the wall, yes, infant Baptism is not Christian nor Biblical. SOME denominations believe that if the parents baptize the child that he/she is somehow saved from all future sins.

Water baptism is an purposeful outward sign to other people that the person has had an inward change (born-again experience). Baby baptism is nothing more than a baby dedication in truth although the parents may not even realize it.
Children cannot make the decision to get water baptizes on their own. Even if they could there is no need to. All children are innocent in God's eyes until the age when they become accountable. They must know right from wrong and willingly choose to sin; to be disobedient over being obedient to God. Until that sin children do not need salvation.
Talking about something that is non-biblical, where is the Scriptures does it state that children are innocent in the eyes of HaShem?...
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:25 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I'm an Atheist and baptism does not seem weird to me. My son had his daughters baptized and I thought both ceremonies were very nice.

By the way, it is generally agreed that the first person to compare something to Hitler loses the argument.
When did you become an atheist?...
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:29 AM
 
Location: NY
9,131 posts, read 19,997,945 times
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Like many other ceremonies in Christian churches, it is just another ceremony which shows an outward expression of inward belief. You could replace infant baptism with any number of other traditional ceremonies and practices with similar meaning.

Not sure how this compares to Fascism or Hitler... and honestly that kind of extreme sort of discredits, or distracts from the point I suspect you are attemtping to drive at.
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