Is this the section of CD where one talks about religion? (church, bible)
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And that "prove it" dude was probably one of your great ancestors. Every one believes in something. Some people believe the truth, some believe the lie. Satan is the father of lies.
What you neglect to take into consideration, or perhaps simply choose to ignore, is that YOUR personal beliefs and YOUR truth, are not everyone elses. Just because you BELIEVE something to be the TRUTH...doesn't necessarily make it so, nor does it make it the TRUTH. It's ALL about RESPECTING that ALL individuals have their own personal BELIEFS and TRUTHS...which are the TRUTH to them. If you can't understand that and be respectful (by not negating THEIR beliefs and truths by calling them LIES), while sharing your BELIEFS and TRUTHS with others, then don't be surprised when others do the same to you. People do have a tendency to treat others as they are treated by them. Just saying...
And BTW...when preaching the "Gospel", which means GOOD NEWS, as you're going to burn in "hell" for all eternity, if you don't believe (which is the OPPOSITE of GOOD NEWS), it shouldn't surprise you when the majority of us don't take you seriously at all with your GOOD NEWS.
Last edited by ChristyGrl; 12-20-2012 at 08:33 AM..
And that "prove it" dude was probably one of your great ancestors. Every one believes in something. Some people believe the truth, some believe the lie. Satan is the father of lies.
And THAT right there is the problem and why non-Christians will argue with you....always. Your "truth" is not my "truth", let alone THE truth. You believe it to be so, but it does not change the fact that it is NOT so. How can you not see that by calling all other beliefs and non-beliefs a "lie" is not disparaging to other people? How can you not see that calling other peoples' beliefs or non-beliefs a "lie" will cause them to react negatively? You don't see the atheists bashing my Comanche beliefs even though I know dang good and well they see them as nonsense. And why is that? It's because I leave them to not believe as they wish. I do not nor do I see a need to try and convince them that they should follow my way. THAT'S why. Why is this so hard for evangelical Christians to understand? And then you people have the nerve to get all butt-hurt about it? My goodness.
If you Fundamentalist/Evangelicals could just live your truth and not bother others about it, then you would not receive the scorn and derision from those who do not believe as you do. Apparently, you people are incapable of doing so. As that is the case, the debates will continue.
Sorry ChristyGirl....I hadn't read your post before I wrote mine. I didn't mean to repeat what you had already well said.
Last edited by Fullback32; 12-20-2012 at 09:21 AM..
We all are human beings and as a result we all tend to be somewhat self protective of what we believe. It is a very thin line that divides mocking and debate. It seems with most of us if we point out the error of what someone else believes that is debate. But, if they point out the error of what we believe or disbelieve that is mocking.
This is a very general forum and as such peaceful debate is permitted and perhaps even encouraged. It is often our own personal perception that causes us to see it as debate or mockery.
Since the majority of Theists that post here seem to be Christian it is understandable that there will be those who perceive this to be a Christian vs Atheist forum, instead of a discussion forum of various belief systems. Perhaps it would be easier if somehow we all could view it as simply discussion with no agenda to bash each other.
I love this! Would like to add that sometimes people will interpret a reply as mocking or insult towards the author. This happened to me a couple of years ago.
While discussing the afterlife, someone responded to a comment I made about it by saying a person would need a working brain to know what was happening (or something to that effect). I interpreted it as an insult - that I was stupid. But they were speaking from a scientific standpoint and were just stating a fact about the human brain.
I felt a little silly, after the fact, because I responded that they were being rude. They weren't. It was just how I was interpreting their comment. So, I take more time now to really try and understand the intent of the message instead of putting up my defenses and accuse others of attacking my beliefs. Of course, if they use words like stupid, ignorant, or other insulting terms, I'll just pass by their comment because it's clear they aren't interested in having a meaningful discussion and their intent is very clear.
I thought I accidently clicked on the atheist section.
Seems most of the posters here are atheists and half of the threads bash religion or mock those who believe in spiritual things.
Must be the time of year. Or the impending End-Of-The-World
I have brought up this point in other discussions. Atheists seem to crowd this forum. Why? My perception is that a great number of them just to put down religion or the belief in a diety. At least that is how the come across anytime thests are discussing some theological point and very often they get in the middle of it with some comment stating how delusional theists are, nothing to do with the theological point.
They do not seem to truly want to discuss logic and reason. They love to make claims they only believe in logic and reason, nothing wrong with that but they attach those comments with sarcasm or put downs.
I have no personal interest in proving whether a diety exists or not. My conclusion at this point is that there is enough logic out there that makes it probable of the existence of a diety. That is as much as I will go because it is not a conclusion that influences my life at all.
To me religion is another area of philosophy on life. The Bible does offer some good philosophical points. Jesus is recognized as a great philosopher when you exclude the miracles and supernatural accounts.
Unfortunately, theists allow their emotions to get the best of them and fall in the atheists traps. I must say it is somewhat humorous.
Honestly? I believe that the moderator/s in this forum is/are doing a very poor job in this area. If I was the moderator I would ensure atheists that get into the forum with their remarks that have nothing to do with the subject in discussion would not have their messages read at all. If any of them kept creeping into the forum to to simply troll with their remarks I would ban them from the forum.
It would be great if athests come to the forum to have a sincere desire to share why they do not believe in God and give their logic and reasons and truly hear what theists have to say. Unfortunately the majority does not seem to be that reason. Take care.
I have brought up this point in other discussions. Atheists seem to crowd this forum. Why? My perception is that a great number of them just to put down religion or the belief in a diety. At least that is how the come across anytime thests are discussing some theological point and very often they get in the middle of it with some comment stating how delusional theists are, nothing to do with the theological point.
They do not seem to truly want to discuss logic and reason. They love to make claims they only believe in logic and reason, nothing wrong with that but they attach those comments with sarcasm or put downs.
I have no personal interest in proving whether a diety exists or not. My conclusion at this point is that there is enough logic out there that makes it probable of the existence of a diety. That is as much as I will go because it is not a conclusion that influences my life at all.
To me religion is another area of philosophy on life. The Bible does offer some good philosophical points. Jesus is recognized as a great philosopher when you exclude the miracles and supernatural accounts.
Unfortunately, theists allow their emotions to get the best of them and fall in the atheists traps. I must say it is somewhat humorous.
Honestly? I believe that the moderator/s in this forum is/are doing a very poor job in this area. If I was the moderator I would ensure atheists that get into the forum with their remarks that have nothing to do with the subject in discussion would not have their messages read at all. If any of them kept creeping into the forum to to simply troll with their remarks I would ban them from the forum.
It would be great if athests come to the forum to have a sincere desire to share why they do not believe in God and give their logic and reasons and truly hear what theists have to say. Unfortunately the majority does not seem to be that reason. Take care.
Beautiful projection, well done. But, it's okay when the christians go on and on about how the foolish heathens will spend eternity in hell for their disbelief? Talk about only seeing which one wishes to see. I mean, this is the Religion/Spirituality forum. How dare anyone discuss it. And by logical I suppose we use the same logic as the theist....."the bible says so, so there". Or what about when you do bring up something logical(?) and the theist says, "in the end days there will be mockers"? Sure, man. We'll try to be more christian like next time.
Beautiful projection, well done. But, it's okay when the christians go on and on about how the foolish heathens will spend eternity in hell for their disbelief?
No it is not OK either. I know and have dealt with those types myself. However, I will compare it to let us say a club. This forum I see it as a club. Hopefully you see it as a valid comparison. In this club theists may refer to others as whatever they want and in the Atheist forums to theists whatever they want. I do not see anything wrong with that. However, if an atheist comes to a theological discussion between two theists, do you agree that it is OK for an atheist to make a comment like "I do not know why people still believe in such myths and fantasies. It is amazing how people are so delusional" or something along those lines. What is the intent of that comment? I will say the same if I see a theist making such type comments in the Atheist forum when two athests are discussing their points. What is the intent? Feeling special because he thinks he is God's chosen one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by busterkeaton
Talk about only seeing which one wishes to see. I mean, this is the Religion/Spirituality forum. How dare anyone discuss it. And by logical I suppose we use the same logic as the theist....."the bible says so, so there". Or what about when you do bring up something logical(?) and the theist says, "in the end days there will be mockers"? Sure, man. We'll try to be more christian like next time.
No, I am not asking for you to be more christian like. I am addressing courtesy that does seem to be lacking. Courtesy is not the domain of christians. It can be used by everybody.
I love sharing and discussing philosophical points. However, it does turn me off when people (theists and atheists) start resorting to ad hominens, sarcasm, put downs, and demeaning comments.
This applies to both groups. I addressed atheists in this case because of the OP observation and I agree that that is what I also see.
Let me ask you a question. If you are an atheist, why do you come to the Religions and Philosophy forum? To share? inquire? learn from other people that believe differently? learn WHY people believe the way they do? of to prove them wrong? I am not asking for an answer but for you to honestly answer it to yourself and see what is your true intent. Is it truly for knowledge?
Lastly, to be fair, the points I brought up about atheist also apply to theists. They claim to love God but yet I see how often they claim to have the "TRUTH" about the Bible. Have you seen how they may gang up agains Jehovah's Witnesses? I believe a while ago the discussion about HELL had to be banned because of the nasty ways they resort to, talking about being loving christians. Take care.
Take care.
No it is not OK either. I know and have dealt with those types myself. However, I will compare it to let us say a club. This forum I see it as a club. Hopefully you see it as a valid comparison. In this club theists may refer to others as whatever they want and in the Atheist forums to theists whatever they want. I do not see anything wrong with that. However, if an atheist comes to a theological discussion between two theists, do you agree that it is OK for an atheist to make a comment like "I do not know why people still believe in such myths and fantasies. It is amazing how people are so delusional" or something along those lines. What is the intent of that comment? I will say the same if I see a theist making such type comments in the Atheist forum when two athests are discussing their points. What is the intent? Feeling special because he thinks he is God's chosen one?
No, I am not asking for you to be more christian like. I am addressing courtesy that does seem to be lacking. Courtesy is not the domain of christians. It can be used by everybody.
I love sharing and discussing philosophical points. However, it does turn me off when people (theists and atheists) start resorting to ad hominens, sarcasm, put downs, and demeaning comments.
This applies to both groups. I addressed atheists in this case because of the OP observation and I agree that that is what I also see.
Let me ask you a question. If you are an atheist, why do you come to the Religions and Philosophy forum? To share? inquire? learn from other people that believe differently? learn WHY people believe the way they do? of to prove them wrong? I am not asking for an answer but for you to honestly answer it to yourself and see what is your true intent. Is it truly for knowledge?
Lastly, to be fair, the points I brought up about atheist also apply to theists. They claim to love God but yet I see how often they claim to have the "TRUTH" about the Bible. Have you seen how they may gang up agains Jehovah's Witnesses? I believe a while ago the discussion about HELL had to be banned because of the nasty ways they resort to, talking about being loving christians. Take care.
Take care.
The whole christian theistic point though is predicated on the belief that unbelievers are cast into a fiery lake for eternity. What atheistic point refers to those who believe doing the same? Sure, there are universalist christians who don't believe in a forever burning hell, but they are not the mainstream. When your Old Testament and New one countlessly refer to us "godless fools" as being divinely dealt with....well, it's gonna get a few in a tizzy. And this to me seems quite logical for an atheist to address that. I spent a good deal of my younger years hearing about the "Lake of Fire Resort" awaiting the heathens. And now I have to watch as they indoctrinate my little baby niece into it. It's infuriating, watching the cycle of emotional/psychological abuse continue. I live in Texas and i've had my fair share walk up to me to witness. I've yet to have someone walk up to me and unwitness. But, anyway....take care too.
The whole christian theistic point though is predicated on the belief that unbelievers are cast into a fiery lake for eternity. What atheistic point refers to those who believe doing the same?
If a christian in the "Religion and Spirituality" says those words, it is their belief however philosophically may be to me. So what if they say so. So there is not atheistic similar angle? BUT, I think that atheists may not make the type of comment but the closest is what I already referred to by making put down comments when to me it is uncalled for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by busterkeaton
Sure, there are universalist christians who don't believe in a forever burning hell, but they are not the mainstream. When your Old Testament and New one countlessly refer to us "godless fools" as being divinely dealt with....well, it's gonna get a few in a tizzy.
All I can say is "Ignore them!" It works for me. Let me clarify. If I come to this forum and I read those type of words, it is their forum and I respect that. If they tell me directly to get into a fight, of course they will get a response. If they tell me that I will burn in hell and tell me why. I just read and listen as to why they believe that way and I will give them my response in the same maner why I do not think so, easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by busterkeaton
And this to me seems quite logical for an atheist to address that.
OK, address it if it means so much to me. My angle is when attack others for the sake of demeaning others for believing the way they do. If you are doing it becuase it gets to you, all I can say get a thicker skin if they simply are expressing their views with no ill intent. Even if that was the case, this is their forum and I will respect their comments even when I think they are idiotic, arrogant, etc. I actually may chuckle when they do that. They may not realize how unchristian like they act when they act as if they are so special.
Quote:
Originally Posted by busterkeaton
I spent a good deal of my younger years hearing about the "Lake of Fire Resort" awaiting the heathens. And now I have to watch as they indoctrinate my little baby niece into it. It's infuriating, watching the cycle of emotional/psychological abuse continue. I live in Texas and i've had my fair share walk up to me to witness. I've yet to have someone walk up to me and unwitness. But, anyway....take care too.
You closing comment seems to tell me why you think it is OK to respond back. You have bottled up anymosity but all I can tell you it is good to learn to not let our emotions get the best of us as much as we can. Take care.
Usually, atheists do not come on here and ridicule what people believe. They ridicule the logical thought process that leads them to what they believe, and that leads from what they believe to their social behavior, which affect all of us.
Every thread in every forum will have posters who critique the foundation upon which other posters assert their beliefs in some issue or another. Only in the religion form is it regularly asserted that something is true "because I learned it from picture books in Sunday school", without any other source of authority, and accordingly, it is above any rational challenge.
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