Evolutionary Theory and Faith (Israel, Catholic, believe, verse)

[Tricky D]

I've thought about it some more and have come to the conclusion that having faith is like falling in love. In both cases you make a leap of faith while at the same time you open yourself up for a possible world of hurt.
In the case of falling in love the possible outcome could be that she is not the one or that I was not the one for her; in both cases you risk a broken heart. When it comes to faith the same thing occurs; either you become a believer or not.
While a leap of faith is not an easy thing to do, simply because you'll be at your most vulnerable, it can be most rewarding.

But I don't know what the theorie of evolution and faith have to do with it.

[Oakback]

Maybe it's like this;

I have faith that when I walk into my kitchen and flick the light switch, the lights will come on.
However, I may have no idea how the electrical system was put together, or who did the work.

[PhillyChief]

That's hardly faith. That's an educated acceptance based on evidence gathered from past experiences of that light and other lights turning on after a switch is flicked on.

Here's a joke: How many atheists does it take to change a lightbulb? 2. One to change the bulb and the other to film it as proof that a god didn't do it.

[Tricky D]

That is not faith, when you flick on a light switch you just expect the light to go on. And sometimes it doesn't due to mechanical failure.

Having faith involves some risk, sometimes great personal risk. There is no risk in flipping a lightswitch.

[Oakback]

Maybe I misunderstood. I thought I was addressing the conflict between faith in GOD ( as you understand GOD ) and the whole creation vs evolution thing.

For example, my faith is not predicated on creation vs evolution ( now I've ticked off everyone on both sides of the issue ). Frankly, I think both science and religion are still stuggling with the issue.

[Tricky D]

I can't remember. Maybe it only had to do with having faith in God and still using reason. I mean everytime I fall in love it is always a battle between having faith in Love while trying to be reasonable (balanced), instead of wanting to be swept away by emotions.

I guess I got sidetracked.

[PhillyChief]

Evolution is not about origins, it's about development. I don't see why someone can't have their cake and eat it too so to speak and embrace evolution and a creator who is responsible for a divine spark. I read someone recently on a blog use the term "creationist evolution".

One thing religion has shown over the centuries is an uncanny ability to stay alive and embrace developments of science that seem to undermine it. They thought if people accepted that that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe, it would be over. Well, it's still here, isn't it? I'm sure it'll find a way to survive and coexist with evolution or just about anything else science comes up with. I'm not happy about it, but it seems true.

[Oakback]

TrickyD & PhillyCheif,

Maybe we're all closer than we think.

I need to remember there are brilliant theologians ( ie; Yale Divinty School ) that are complete atheists, don't believe a word. And then there are brilliant scientists like Einstein who became more "religious" as time went on.

I don't believe science and religion are mutually exclusive. Frankly, both the scientific community and the "church' both still struggle with the creation/evolution question.

Regarding faith, indulge me as I give an analogy:

I'm in a library. Sitting next to me is a person who was born totally blind. This person asks me what I'm reading. I respond, a book about orchids. Then the person asks me to describe the color of a green orchid.
So I proceed to give the most complete, articulate, and descriptive image I can of the color green. When I'm done, this blind person, who has never even seen the slightest variation of light and dark, can now describe the color green. But have no clue what it looks like.
On the other hand, the simplest individual would KNOW what green looks like.

[TnHilltopper]

In the past the church and pretty much all of the world believed the world flat, this was the consensus and those that refuted this were imprisoned or executed as heretics but in fact the world is not flat as was later revealed to them. Religious ideologist are quick to dismiss anything that bucks the church doctrine when they themselves become too steeped in textual interpretations. Who is to say that evolution was not part of Gods divine plan? After all, if a divine entity exist that is capable of creating all we know or all that is beyond our understanding, then why should we limit it to how WE see it or how man wrote it?

[PhillyChief]

Theists for a long time have been misrepresenting Einstein. There have been several quotes accredited to him about religion, even in his lifetime that were false and in his lifetime he refuted them.
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
He later said...
I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
- both can be found in Jennifer Michael Hecht's Doubt: A History, reprinted in Hitchens' God is not Great


I find it amusing Oakback how you've turned the tables in your analogy to portray the atheist as blind. Cute. At least I think that's what you're going with, no? The blind knowing the definition of green but never understanding it? To expand on your analogy...

Sad thing is you can be cruel and spend the same time explaining what the color "blurple" is. How would they not know such a color is not real? They'd just have to believe it and have faith in you being honest. Unlike the blind person, we all can see if we want to but some feel more comfortable keeping their eyes shut and just blindly accepting info they're fed as truth.