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Please read the Old Testament without any ecclesiologial or faith preconceptions. Wherever you start or finish you will soon see that as narrative it is incoherent, mixed, inconsistent and full of holes, duplications and discrepancies.
The truth that it contains is not ultimately historical or factual, but rather a statement about who God's people are, what they believe and what has made them they way they are.
That faith is beyond the realm of argument. It is not rational in the way that saying 'coochy choochy coo' to a baby is not rational. It is a response to how we feel about who we are in this universe, why we might be here and what we might be supposed to do with our lives.
My caveat is that one person's spiritual fulfilment does not lead to another person's physical, emotional, mental or spiritual damage.
So that any religious prescriptions or laws which encourage hatred towards any other person, their death, deprivation or diminution is ultimately evil in its effect.
Since one hears a lot about just such religious laws, fundamentalist Christians and Islaamists seem to have a great deal in common in their desire to 'punish' the 'undesirables'. So that the American Christian Right is on the same side as the people who are responsible for the attack on the Twin Towers.
Faith, in my opinion it not possible to defend rationally. One either has it, or not.
Many, have only faith in their own belief. So be it. But they seem to have as much difficulty describing it as I do.
I had to quote the above. It's excellent. What a remarkable distinction.
However, many anti-Christians commit this fallacy when they try to disprove Christianity by pointing out alleged parallels in pagan mythology. Another example is: ‘You only believe Christianity because you were indoctrinated by your parents and culture; if you came from a Hindu family and culture you would be a Hindu’, with the spoken or unspoken impression ‘thus Christianity need not be preferred over Hinduism’. In neither case can anything be inferred about the truth of Christianity from reasons a Christian’s belief allegedly originated." - By Jonathan Sarfati. First published:TJ12(2):142–151 August 1998 <empahsis mine>
I had to quote the above. It's excellent. What a remarkable distinction.
Thank you, Oakback.
Rather Faith is the evidence of things not seen. Check out the Bible it has alot to say on Faith. The evidence it speaks of is a legally binding evidence. I have faith in God. This faith that I have is legal evidence that God exists. I do not have to prove him. But my faith is based on experiences that I have had in my own life. This means that its not "blind faith" but real, observed, experienced faith. I have faith that the ground under my feet will support me by experience, so my faith in God has been supported by experiences in my life.
Please read the Old Testament without any ecclesiologial or faith preconceptions. Wherever you start or finish you will soon see that as narrative it is incoherent, mixed, inconsistent and full of holes, duplications and discrepancies.
The truth that it contains is not ultimately historical or factual, but rather a statement about who God's people are, what they believe and what has made them they way they are.
That faith is beyond the realm of argument. It is not rational in the way that saying 'coochy choochy coo' to a baby is not rational. It is a response to how we feel about who we are in this universe, why we might be here and what we might be supposed to do with our lives.
My caveat is that one person's spiritual fulfilment does not lead to another person's physical, emotional, mental or spiritual damage.
So that any religious prescriptions or laws which encourage hatred towards any other person, their death, deprivation or diminution is ultimately evil in its effect.
Since one hears a lot about just such religious laws, fundamentalist Christians and Islaamists seem to have a great deal in common in their desire to 'punish' the 'undesirables'. So that the American Christian Right is on the same side as the people who are responsible for the attack on the Twin Towers.
What do you think?
What the...
There is too much crap for me to reply to here. First there is no errors in the Bible. There is no discrepancies or falsifications. The problem that I have found with people who think this is that they do not understand the Bible. Most say this because they are accually quoting someone else, never having read the Bible for themselves. Alot believe this to discredit the Bible because they hate God. If you think the Bible is full of errors give an example. There are answers to any question you have.
The Bible is an historical document. The text is so from Genesis 1:1
And, what is this about fundamentalist christian who wants to "punish"... If that is the case then maybe they are not actually Christians but rather just plain old athiest. If they are christians they are not being true to their belief in a merciful and forgiving God. That is terrible that you would put a Christian on the side of the terrrorists. What religious Christian Law are you talking about? Again you speak here with generalities.
If you think the Bible is full of errors give an example. There are answers to any question you have.
Ok... I'll play
Matthew 13:31-32 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
31Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
1. Least of all seeds? I'm guessing smallest of all seeds. Is the Mustard Seed the smallest of all seeds?
2. Do mustard seeds grow into trees?
I think the answer to both questions is no...
Also.. I'd like to know how you can prove the Bible is without errors..
Last edited by bigthirsty; 11-08-2007 at 11:54 AM..
Matthew 13:31-32 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
31Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
1. Least of all seeds? I'm guessing smallest of all seeds. Is the Mustard Seed the smallest of all seeds?
2. Do mustard seeds grow into trees?
I think the answer to both questions is no.
I think you just proved:
1.) The KJV is not the best translation in the world.
2.) One shouldn't use parables for botany lessons. (That's not the point of the parable!)
But that hardly qualifies this passage of Matthew as contradictory or irrelevant. Just misused in this case.
Rather Faith is the evidence of things not seen. Check out the Bible it has alot to say on Faith. The evidence it speaks of is a legally binding evidence. I have faith in God. This faith that I have is legal evidence that God exists. I do not have to prove him. But my faith is based on experiences that I have had in my own life. This means that its not "blind faith" but real, observed, experienced faith.
The evidence you speak of exists only in your mind, hence the distinction, "things not seen." We cannot "believe" something into existence.
Quote:
I have faith that the ground under my feet will support me by experience, so my faith in God has been supported by experiences in my life.
2.) One shouldn't use parables for botany lessons. (That's not the point of the parable!)
Yet, many Christians don't see a problem using Genesis for a geology/cosmology/biology lesson. Perhaps that's not the point of Genesis?
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