If Your God Created This Perfect World and Everything That Your God Made/Makes Is Perfect, Then Why All the Evil? (myth, church)

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by 007.5

God IS totally soveriegn over everything in addition to providing his most beloved created (us) , freewill .. which is a profound example of lavished love .

Yes, God did know how we would turn out even before we were created and he cared enough to provide a way for us to be redeemed from our poor choices, willful rebellion against him , harm we do to another , and self centeredness we enjoy marinating in.

He's in charge of it all, he knew exactly the evil things we would do by the exact way he created our dna and our circumstances, yet he was happy to do it. He was happy to create children that would suffer horrible deaths, which happens every day. He did it so the serial rapist could have the free will to take away the free will of the victims.

Instead of destroying the entire world, again, because if peoples wickeness / rebellion / and arrogance....he chose in his love to provide a sacrifice that would be totally sufficent and would forgive people of their sins while at the same time being reconciled back to God in complete fellowship . This is phase one.

I don't know why God needs to have himself killed in order to forgive us... never made sense to me.

Phase two, as promised, will be when The Creator abolishes all evil on the Earth in his time and according to his Will. It is inevitable however .

What's he waiting for?

I never indicated that all evil on the earth comes from humans , but a good part of it in fact, does. Natural Disasters are the result of a once perfect created world being thrown into chaos , however, as a direct result of mans sin entering the world.

Oh so this world is NOT perfect? And it's our fault for bringing evil here, when God knew evil would come if he created us with the propensity for evil, when he could have created us any way he wanted, even in a way that every one of us abhorred evil so much that we would never bring ourselves to partake in it?

It affected the physical world . But again, God promises to redeem that anomoly one day to where the Earth will be restored to its original perfection (aka: Heaven coming to Earth) . You have the opportunity to be a part of that if you wish to be reconciled to God thru his only devised way : Trusting Christ who is God in human form sent to earth to pay the sin debt you have incurred and have stored up..then making him the authority over your life and allowing him to put his righteousness and qualities into you. Its not 'a religous experience' ... its Gods global plan of salvation for you to be reconciled to him...made before the foundations of the world were layed. Yes, it requires putting a knife thru our personal pride, but its going to be fully worth it in the final analysis. That too, is a freewill choice -- to return the Creators love back to him , just as your Parents hoped you would with them.

Great plan, as only a third or less of the world is Christian, so the rest are doomed.

[007.5]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

He's in charge of it all, he knew exactly the evil things we would do by the exact way he created our dna and our circumstances, yet he was happy to do it. He was happy to create children that would suffer horrible deaths, which happens every day. He did it so the serial rapist could have the free will to take away the free will of the victims.


I don't know why God needs to have himself killed in order to forgive us... never made sense to me.


What's he waiting for?


Oh so this world is NOT perfect? And it's our fault for bringing evil here, when God knew evil would come if he created us with the propensity for evil, when he could have created us any way he wanted, even in a way that every one of us abhorred evil so much that we would never bring ourselves to partake in it?


Great plan, as only a third or less of the world is Christian, so the rest are doomed.

In order---

1. You err thru not understanding. God didnt create evil nor did he create disease or natural disasters . He is a benevolent Creator and is infinetly good, righteous, holy, pure , and undefiled. Evil/disease/natural disasters all came into the initially perfect world he originally created, so, he didnt cause it ; he didnt program our DNA in an adverse manner...in fact, he gave our Bodies repair systems in our DNA which counter many of the effects of sin having entered the world bringing about diseases. Further, this life is a temporary fleeting moment and infintesimal compared to all of eternity. Its eternity that should be your greater concern and not on an earthly life where everything in the world is passing away . Being in the presence of God in a safe eternity far outweighs the ravages of sins consequences on earth and if you were to ask those who have died young from physical ailments/accidents, they would testify to that right away. Give your eternity much consideration and getting right with God now while you have time.

2. God demands perfect restitution for sins due to his holy nature ; we as humans are hardly that perfectedness given our depravity . CHrist the Son of God came to earth and lived a perfect life free from sin and so was a sufficient sacrifice for our sins appeasing Gods holiness and requirement. We cant save ourselves ..we needed a divine Saviour, one who became human and experienced all we do as being human...yet not sinning. When Christ went to the cross, he redeemed us and broke the power of sin so if we apply his merits from the cross unto ourselves, God looks upon us as he does his own Son because we were bought by him. If we dont accept CHrist, then WE have to pay the price for our sins which means eternal seperation from God . If you want God as your friend, it has to be done his way otherwise its an eternal crime to reject his only free offer found in CHrist. You simply believe by Faith that CHrist died for your sins and was adequate in clearing them from your record. Then you vow to live for him and let his power influence your life positively.

3. He waiting for as many people as possible to come to repentence of their many sins so they can be forgiven before he cleanses the world of evil . You dont want to be here when he does that.

4. Gods appointed way is thru his Son. No other. We should be glad there IS a way.

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by 007.5

In order---

1. You err thru not understanding. God didnt create evil nor did he create disease or natural disasters . He is a benevolent Creator and is infinetly good, righteous, holy, pure , and undefiled. Evil/disease/natural disasters all came into the initially perfect world he originally created, so, he didnt cause it ; he didnt program our DNA in an adverse manner...in fact, he gave our Bodies repair systems in our DNA which counter many of the effects of sin having entered the world bringing about diseases. Further, this life is a temporary fleeting moment and infintesimal compared to all of eternity. Its eternity that should be your greater concern and not on an earthly life where everything in the world is passing away . Being in the presence of God in a safe eternity far outweighs the ravages of sins consequences on earth and if you were to ask those who have died young from physical ailments/accidents, they would testify to that right away. Give your eternity much consideration and getting right with God now while you have time.

2. God demands perfect restitution for sins due to his holy nature ; we as humans are hardly that perfectedness given our depravity . CHrist the Son of God came to earth and lived a perfect life free from sin and so was a sufficient sacrifice for our sins appeasing Gods holiness and requirement. We cant save ourselves ..we needed a divine Saviour, one who became human and experienced all we do as being human...yet not sinning. When Christ went to the cross, he redeemed us and broke the power of sin so if we apply his merits from the cross unto ourselves, God looks upon us as he does his own Son because we were bought by him. If we dont accept CHrist, then WE have to pay the price for our sins which means eternal seperation from God . If you want God as your friend, it has to be done his way otherwise its an eternal crime to reject his only free offer found in CHrist. You simply believe by Faith that CHrist died for your sins and was adequate in clearing them from your record. Then you vow to live for him and let his power influence your life positively.

3. He waiting for as many people as possible to come to repentence of their many sins so they can be forgiven before he cleanses the world of evil . You dont want to be here when he does that.

4. Gods appointed way is thru his Son. No other. We should be glad there IS a way.

Ya, I see what you're saying, and I've heard it all before, but it makes no sense.

God created everything but there's stuff he didn't create?

God's in control of everything but it's not his fault that natural disasters occur?

God is Jesus but he sent Jesus to die so that God can forgive us, even though he could just wiggle his nose and say "I forgive you" without requiring a human sacrifice?

God is sitting with folded arms watching innocent children get raped, tortured, and die painful deaths, just waiting for more people to believe before he rids the world of evil, even though belief is consistently declining in our world?

yaright

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by 007.5

What 'I believe' isnt based on fanciful feelings , but on externals such as the scientific and historic evidences that prove the Bible is inspired of God and is a totally trustworthy document . It was the biggest reason I abandoned 10 adult years of wanting to be an Atheist/Secular Humanist. A person has to be willing to diligently investigate the evidences with an open mind / non apriori-philosophical bias , however. Very few of those who proclaim they are atheist, wish to do this .. but I was one of them. I spent a good 2 years doing so ...something that most Christians havent even done. If you ever get to the place of wanting to honestly investigate it, I can suggest some very good scholarly sources for the evidence.

I guess not everyone is smart enough, or has the courage to dismiss the absurdities learned from ancient superstition.

Scholarly sources? Those that spent a life time teaching the absurdities because it's their job, and they earn a good salary without having to question, just bloviate the same nonsense they were programmed from childhood with. No new text to learn, no new discoveries to modify curriculum, the lecture notes from 20 years ago suffice for tomorrows class. My sympathies.

[007.5]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

I guess not everyone is smart enough, or has the courage to dismiss the absurdities learned from ancient superstition.

Scholarly sources? Those that spent a life time teaching the absurdities because it's their job, and they earn a good salary without having to question, just bloviate the same nonsense they were programmed from childhood with. No new text to learn, no new discoveries to modify curriculum, the lecture notes from 20 years ago suffice for tomorrows class. My sympathies.

You obviously havent taken the time to thoroughly investigate the Christian Faith and The Bible ; it is so compelling that many well known Scientists , Medical Doctors, Law Professors , former atheist Philosophers, Generals, etc... properly looked into it and abandoned the superstition of atheism. You can too, just as i did. Nobody really has enough faith to be an atheist when its scrutinized -- even Dawkins has shifted from the conventional tenets of atheism as a worldview (blind chance thru natural causes and materialism) , to a personal Creator in a distant galaxy. Hes becoming a Theists best friend !

[EinsteinsGhost]

Originally Posted by 007.5

You obviously havent taken the time to thoroughly investigate the Christian Faith and The Bible ; it is so compelling that many well known Scientists , Medical Doctors, Law Professors , former atheist Philosophers, Generals, etc... properly looked into it and abandoned the superstition of atheism. You can too, just as i did. Nobody really has enough faith to be an atheist when its scrutinized -- even Dawkins has shifted from the conventional tenets of atheism as a worldview , to a personal Creator in a distant galaxy. Hes becoming a Theists best friend !

I would like to meet ONE of them and have them explain on how they could believe all the ridiculousness, the myths documented in the Bible and being labeled "Gods word".

PS. June 7th, if you're looking for posts that tie to the OP, you have your work cut out in this thread.

[007.5]

Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost

I would like to meet ONE of them and have them explain on how they could believe all the ridiculousness, the myths documented in the Bible and being labeled "Gods word".

PS. June 7th, if you're looking for posts that tie to the OP, you have your work cut out in this thread.

Then let me introduce you to :

■600+ voting scientists of the Creation Research Society (voting
membership requires at least an earned master's degree in a recognized
area of science).

■150 Ph.D. scientists and 300 other scientists with masters degrees in
science or engineering are members of the Korea Association of
Creation Research. The President of KACR is the distinguished
scientist and Professor Young-Gil Kim of the Korea Advanced Institute
of Science and Technology. Ph.D. in Materials Science, Rensselaer
Polytechnic Institute / highly distinguished / inventor of various
important high-tech alloys.

■Gerald E. Aardsma (physicist and radiocarbon dating)

■Louis Agassiz (helped develop the study of glacial geology and of
ichthyology)

■Alexander Arndt (analytical chemist, etc.) [more info]

■Steven A. Austin (geologist and coal formation expert) [more info]

■Charles Babbage (helped develop science of computers / developed
actuarial tables and the calculating machine)

■Francis Bacon (developed the Scientific Method)

■Thomas G. Barnes (physicist) [more info]

■Robert Boyle (helped develop sciences of chemistry and gas dynamics)

■Wernher von Braun (pioneer of rocketry and space exploration)

■David Brewster (helped develop science of optical mineralogy)

■Arthur V. Chadwick (geologist) [more info]

■Melvin Alonzo Cook (physical chemist, Nobel Prize nominee) [more
info]

■Georges Cuvier (helped develop sciences of comparative anatomy and
vertebrate paleontology)

■Humphry Davy (helped develop science of thermokinetics)

■Donald B. DeYoung (physicist, specializing in solid-state, nuclear
science and astronomy) [more info]

■Henri Fabre (helped develop science of insect entomology)

■Michael Faraday (helped develop science of electromagnetics /
developed the Field Theory / invented the electric generator)

■Danny R. Faulkner (astronomer) [more info]

■Ambrose Fleming (helped develop science of electronics / invented
thermionic valve)

■Robert V. Gentry (physicist and chemist) [more info]

■Duane T. Gish (biochemist) [more info]

■John Grebe (chemist) [more info]
* Professor Simon Greenleaf , Top Law Professor (while not a
Scientist, he put the New Testament of the Bible to a very stringent
test of applied court evidence...and determined without a doubt that
Christ is 100 percent real and is the Creator since he said he was and
proved it so).
■Joseph Henry (invented the electric motor and the galvanometer /
discovered self-induction)

■William Herschel (helped develop science of galactic astronomy /
discovered double stars / developed the Global Star Catalog)

■George F. Howe (botanist) [more info]
* Sir Fred Hoyle, Astro Physicist (postulated the Stead State Theory
and vehemently denounced Darwinnian Evolution probability akin to 'a
tornado ripping thru a junk yard and assembling a fully functioning
Boeing 747' . Also calculated with another British Scientist the
probability of Abiogenesis at 10x40,000 power probability thereby
showing no one can be a true atheist with that much blind faith).
■D. Russell Humphreys (award-winning physicist) [more info]

■James P. Joule (developed reversible thermodynamics)

■Johann Kepler (helped develop science of physical astronomy /
developed the Ephemeris Tables)

■John W. Klotz (geneticist and biologist) [more info]
* Robert Jastrow, NASA Founder . (Head of the prestigious Goddard
Institute of NASA . Wrote a scholarly book entitled God and the
Astronomers)
■Leonid Korochkin (geneticist) [more info]

■Lane P. Lester (geneticist and biologist) [more info]

■Carolus Linnaeus (helped develop sciences of taxonomy and systematic
biology / developed the Classification System)

■Joseph Lister (helped develop science of antiseptic surgery)

■Frank L. Marsh (biologist) [more info]

■Matthew Maury (helped develop science of oceanography/hydrography)

■James Clerk Maxwell (helped develop the science of electrodynamics)

■Gregor Mendel (founded the modern science of genetics)

■Samuel F. B. Morse (invented the telegraph)

■Isaac Newton (helped develop science of dynamics and the discipline
of calculus / father of the Law of Gravity / invented the reflecting
telescope)

■Gary E. Parker (biologist and paleontologist) [more info]

■Blaise Pascal (helped develop science of hydrostatics / invented the
barometer)

■Louis Pasteur (helped develop science of bacteriology / discovered
the Law of Biogenesis / invented fermentation control / developed
vaccinations and immunizations)

■William Ramsay (helped develop the science of isotopic chemistry /
discovered inert gases)

■John Ray (helped develop science of biology and natural science)

■Lord Rayleigh (helped develop science of dimensional analysis)

■Bernhard Riemann (helped develop non-Euclidean geometry)

■James Simpson (helped develop the field of gynecology / developed the
use of chloroform)
* Alan Sandage , Famous Cosmologist . (Helped discover the Universes
Radiation Echo)
■Nicholas Steno (helped develop the science of stratigraphy)

■George Stokes (helped develop science of fluid mechanics)

■Charles B. Thaxton (chemist) [more info]

■William Thompson (Lord Kelvin) (helped develop sciences of
thermodynamics and energetics / invented the Absolute Temperature
Scale / developed the Trans-Atlantic Cable)

■Larry Vardiman (astrophysicist and geophysicist) [more info]

■Leonardo da Vinci (helped develop science of hydraulics)

■Rudolf Virchow (helped develop science of pathology)

■A.J. (Monty) White (chemist) [more info]

■A.E. Wilder-Smith (chemist and pharmacology expert) [more info]

■John Woodward (helped develop the science of paleontology)

[007.5]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

Ya, I see what you're saying, and I've heard it all before, but it makes no sense.

God created everything but there's stuff he didn't create?

God's in control of everything but it's not his fault that natural disasters occur?

God is Jesus but he sent Jesus to die so that God can forgive us, even though he could just wiggle his nose and say "I forgive you" without requiring a human sacrifice?

God is sitting with folded arms watching innocent children get raped, tortured, and die painful deaths, just waiting for more people to believe before he rids the world of evil, even though belief is consistently declining in our world?

yaright

1. Youve heard what all before ? What is it you have a problem with ? If youve heard it all before, then why havent you taken the next step ?

2. God created everything good , but not evil . He will one day eradicate all evil and restore to the Earth what Mankind has ruined.

3. God is in control of everything, but natural disasters are the result of sin entering a once perfect world ; that isnt Gods fault. Further, he sometimes intervenes on natural disasters, terminally ill patients, and accidents to either prevent them or for good to come out of them .

4. Gods holy nature who cannot just blow off sin, has to be dealt with by a perfect unblemished sacrifice . You and I could never do enough to cover over our sins. It requires perfection .

5. God feels the pain of all who suffer , especially at the hands of another...but he will not violate his gift of love in the form of human freewill (nor would any Atheist appreciate it whos Pen blows up in thier face when defaming God on paper) ; it is not encumbant upon God to hit all Sinners in the head with a 2x4 everytime they harm another...but rather, for the Sinner to stop suppressing their God given Moral Conscience on what is right from wrong and to become a Born Again person thru what Christ offers (a changed heart , mind, and motives thru Gods spirit actually entering a persons heart ) ..but people loved thier dark evil deeds rather than coming to the light of Gods forgiveness and escape from the power of Sins control.

Its the Christian Faith that has the best answers for life.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by 007.5

You obviously havent taken the time to thoroughly investigate the Christian Faith and The Bible ; it is so compelling that many well known Scientists , Medical Doctors, Law Professors , former atheist Philosophers, Generals, etc... properly looked into it and abandoned the superstition of atheism. You can too, just as i did. Nobody really has enough faith to be an atheist when its scrutinized -- even Dawkins has shifted from the conventional tenets of atheism as a worldview (blind chance thru natural causes and materialism) , to a personal Creator in a distant galaxy. Hes becoming a Theists best friend !

Of course not, do you go tearing off every time you see a rainbow, looking for the pot of gold at its end? Of course not; reason tells you that it's just a myth.

The myth found in the book of myth has such a hold on society because children are indoctrinated when young minds do not yet possess the intellect, maturity and experience to be critical of their beliefs. Children are extremely susceptible hence make the perfect blank slates for irrational fanatics. This is why religions target children. get them when they are young and immature in order to warp their minds into their religious molds all the while discouraging critical and objective thinking by labeling it as an evil temptation or sinful with devastating emotional and cognitive results for the children.

You would not allow your children to be indoctrinated with drug or sexual propaganda. So why would you allow them to be indoctrinated into irrationality and be emotionally and intellectually crippled?


The damage is crippling and for the majority life long.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by 007.5

Then let me introduce you to :
600+ voting scientists of the Creation Research Society (voting
membership requires at least an earned master's degree in a recognized
area of science).

Yeah, the problem is that the CR don't mind if they buy those qualifications from a diploma mill run by uncredited 'Christian Universities'.

Suspicious Creationist Credentials

■150 Ph.D. scientists and 300 other scientists with masters degrees in
science or engineering are members of the Korea Association of
Creation Research.

No doubt as dubious as the American ICR