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God created sin, evil and iniquity along with all things.
Ephesians 3:8-10
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth goodfruit.
Ezekiel 28:15 (King James Version) 15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
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There seems to be something wrong with the logic of these verses.
Was God surprised to find what He had created?
We are told that perfection begets perfection in a never ending line in Math 7 18, yet imperfection in the form of iniquity surfaced in Satan. It must have been put there by God Himself if Eph 3 8 is to be believed.
God is said to have somehow found it but as the creator of all things, He must have created it and placed it within Satan. Presumably to surface and have God find it. It could not have been lost to God so why the Bible uses the word found is perplexing.
We have to believe then that Satan was created exactly as he was meant to be. Perfect as God is only capable of, yet, having evil, sin and iniquity as part of his perfection.
If so, it seems strange that God is later said in scripture to cast Satan into hell.
Matthew 25:41 (Jesus speaking)epart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
If God gave Satan his nature and Satan followed His God given nature, as he must, then why would God curse His perfect creation seeing as how perfection cannot change to imperfection?
If it can and God is also perfect then that would mean that God could also turn to imperfection.
You should know that I do not have much of a problem with the above because I think more as the Hebrews and Jews think. That being that Satan was never evil and was more of God’s Loyal opposition and that Genesis was not the fall of man but man’s ascension to having a moral sense that comes with the knowledge of good and evil.
Satan. Created by God perfect and good or evil? God created sin, evil and iniquity along with all things.
If God gave Satan his nature and Satan followed His God given nature, as he must, then why would God curse His perfect creation seeing as how perfection cannot change to imperfection? If it can and God is also perfect then that would mean that God could also turn to imperfection.
For either God or Satan. Can you shed some light on this issue?
You should know that I do not have much of a problem with the above because I think more as the Hebrews and Jews think. That being that Satan was never evil and was more of God’s Loyal opposition and that Genesis was not the fall of man but man’s ascension to having a moral sense that comes with the knowledge of good and evil.
Regards DL
Well, you should have a problem with the above... 'cause it doesn't make sense... a true book about our Heavenly Father should not contain any contradictions, inaccuracies, fables, fiction, or any other thing that would cause us to take wild guesses at who and what He is.
Our Heavenly Father created living things... and the highest creatures are us... He didn't create evil... which isn't a creature... it is a wrongdoing... a sin against our soul. But having said that, evil is a creation of both men's and women's thoughts and actions and these wrongdoings affect our soul adversely... they defile it and make it dark and ugly and grundgy. And it is our soul's condition that we need to pay attention to.
Now as far as Satan is concerned... who thought up that whopper anyway? It is a symbol for evil and that's it. There is no entity that was ever a fallen angel... this didn't happen. And why wouldn't it happen? Because once our souls are purified completely, there is no way sin would ever become a part of it any longer... we are free from sin. Therefore, to suggest that there was a being in Heaven who fought against our Heavenly Father is nothing short of absurd.
"There never were any rebellions in heaven of any of the angels of God, and whenever such a thing is mentioned in the Bible it has no foundation in fact, for there never was a Seraphim or any other angel that fell and became the devil or Satan, as he is called..."
No Such Thing as Fallen Angels (http://tinyurl.com/2do8dtj - broken link)
Well, you should have a problem with the above... 'cause it doesn't make sense... a true book about our Heavenly Father should not contain any contradictions, inaccuracies, fables, fiction, or any other thing that would cause us to take wild guesses at who and what He is.
Our Heavenly Father created living things... and the highest creatures are us... He didn't create evil... which isn't a creature... it is a wrongdoing... a sin against our soul. But having said that, evil is a creation of both men's and women's thoughts and actions and these wrongdoings affect our soul adversely... they defile it and make it dark and ugly and grundgy. And it is our soul's condition that we need to pay attention to.
Now as far as Satan is concerned... who thought up that whopper anyway? It is a symbol for evil and that's it. There is no entity that was ever a fallen angel... this didn't happen. And why wouldn't it happen? Because once our souls are purified completely, there is no way sin would ever become a part of it any longer... we are free from sin. Therefore, to suggest that there was a being in Heaven who fought against our Heavenly Father is nothing short of absurd.
"There never were any rebellions in heaven of any of the angels of God, and whenever such a thing is mentioned in the Bible it has no foundation in fact, for there never was a Seraphim or any other angel that fell and became the devil or Satan, as he is called..."
No Such Thing as Fallen Angels (http://tinyurl.com/2do8dtj - broken link)
Well, you should have a problem with the above... 'cause it doesn't make sense... a true book about our Heavenly Father should not contain any contradictions, inaccuracies, fables, fiction, or any other thing that would cause us to take wild guesses at who and what He is.
Our Heavenly Father created living things... and the highest creatures are us... He didn't create evil... which isn't a creature... it is a wrongdoing... a sin against our soul. But having said that, evil is a creation of both men's and women's thoughts and actions and these wrongdoings affect our soul adversely... they defile it and make it dark and ugly and grundgy. And it is our soul's condition that we need to pay attention to.
Now as far as Satan is concerned... who thought up that whopper anyway? It is a symbol for evil and that's it. There is no entity that was ever a fallen angel... this didn't happen. And why wouldn't it happen? Because once our souls are purified completely, there is no way sin would ever become a part of it any longer... we are free from sin. Therefore, to suggest that there was a being in Heaven who fought against our Heavenly Father is nothing short of absurd.
"There never were any rebellions in heaven of any of the angels of God, and whenever such a thing is mentioned in the Bible it has no foundation in fact, for there never was a Seraphim or any other angel that fell and became the devil or Satan, as he is called..."
No Such Thing as Fallen Angels (http://tinyurl.com/2do8dtj - broken link)
SoCal..(I always think of a tonic drink), you and I..well, I, at least.. often disagree, but you have absolutely nailed it here.
Satan is a myth devised to explain why things do not go as God wanted. That's obviously an absurdity but any 'Hero' story requires an implacable enemy to be overcome (except that in real life, it doesn't follow the story - line) just as the Hero requires requires a trusted sidekick to provide the cues for explantions directed at the reader and to put on exhibitions of idiocy to make the Hero look good (1).
It surely makes no kind of sense that God would have made angels with the potential to fall as badly and in such numbers as Adam and all his followers, even with God wiping them all out and starting with Noah's family who were clearly no better than they should be.
It really makes God look utterly incompetent. But, as I say, I don't blame God - I just say that, if there is a god, you can bet your last dollar it is NOTHING like what's in the Bible. Do, please, come to your senses, Bible - believers.
(1) Examples, Holmes and Watson, Robin Hood and Little John, Buddha and Ananda, Jesus and Simon Peter - yes, and Elilrairah and Rabscuttle.
... a true book about our Heavenly Father should not contain any contradictions, inaccuracies, fables, fiction, or any other thing that would cause us to take wild guesses at who and what He is.
Well that's the whole point isn't it...it shouldn't but it does.
SoCal..(I always think of a tonic drink), you and I..well, I, at least.. often disagree, but you have absolutely nailed it here.
Satan is a myth devised to explain why things do not go as God wanted. That's obviously an absurdity but any 'Hero' story requires an implacable enemy to be overcome (except that in real life, it doesn't follow the story - line) just as the Hero requires requires a trusted sidekick to provide the cues for explantions directed at the reader and to put on exhibitions of idiocy to make the Hero look good (1).
It surely makes no kind of sense that God would have made angels with the potential to fall as badly and in such numbers as Adam and all his followers, even with God wiping them all out and starting with Noah's family who were clearly no better than they should be.
It really makes God look utterly incompetent. But, as I say, I don't blame God - I just say that, if there is a god, you can bet your last dollar it is NOTHING like what's in the Bible. Do, please, come to your senses, Bible - believers. (1) Examples, Holmes and Watson, Robin Hood and Little John, Buddha and Ananda, Jesus and Simon Peter - yes, and Elilrairah and Rabscuttle.
lol! Indeed, we can agree to disagree, but you'd be surprised that we agree on a whole lot more than you think.
It's like the scapegoat syndrome... Jesus dying on the cross to save our sins, for instance. Another absurdity and common sense and logic dictates that this unusual, supernatural, mystical belief is an error and without foundation. The only way our souls can be cleansed of sin is by our own actions... either we pray for forgiveness, and in my case, praying for God's Divine Love... or we consciously make the effort to stop doing things that bring harm to our souls. A mere mental belief that someone is going to do the job for us doesn't accomplish one single thing, except for those believers being duped... sorry to those people who believe it, but that's just the way it is.
The Teachings of the Bible That Jesus' Blood Washes Away Sin, or That Jesus Died on the Cross for the Salvation of Men, are False (http://tinyurl.com/ygfnu9w - broken link)
Another one that makes no sense... the Virgin Mary... Hello out there! Here's a Pagan, mythological figure, fictional character that somebody decided to plop into the equation. And why is there no such person as this? Because there is such a thing as the law of reproduction... male and female get together and wah-la... here comes baby. Just as what happened with Jesus' real live parents Joseph and Mary.
"... Joseph was the actual father of Jesus, and that he was conceived and born as any other mortal was conceived and born... This is the truth and all accounts and statements to the contrary are erroneous."
Mary writes that Jesus was the natural son of Joseph and Mary (http://tinyurl.com/yz2matz - broken link)
I do. His book is full of lies and contradictions. Too many to count actually.
The Bible says that God can not tell a lie. He wouldn't allow his word to be filled with lies. A careful study of the entire Bible will give us knowledge of God. He can't be blamed if we choose not to carefully study his entire word.
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epart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
