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i kind of get what your sayin MR5150 they are sooooo convinced that nothing exist's outside the material platform and this does take a kind of faith,but im sure they have their reasons so just let them be,there is no-harm in what they beleive,maybe in time they will understand that their is more to life than what's outside,anyhoo all in all what matters is whats on the inside and im sure that alot of atheist's are really good people,God's personality is not present on this planet at the moment,so it is hard to know exactly what the truth is.
I definitely believed there was more to the world than the material when I was atheist. I even believed in spirits and life after death for awhile while still maintaining that there was no God. I figured that the spirits and humans just ran ourselves and that there didn't necessarily have to be someone running the show. I also know a lot of atheists who still believe in love, hope, desire, kindness, and all kinds of other non-materialistic values, that also do not require a belief in God.
No it provides the fantasy of security and riches, and nothing else. You are chasing nothing but a fantasy, and missing so much of life in your headlong rush to preparing for death.
My belief in the afterlife doesn't stop me from enjoying this life to the fullest. I still believe I was put here for a reason and that I would be doing both myself and those around me a disservice by just throwing my time on Earth away. I believe our time here is meant to be well-spent and deeply reflected upon.
No it provides the fantasy of security and riches, and nothing else. You are chasing nothing but a fantasy, and missing so much of life in your headlong rush to preparing for death.
Who was it that said...
"Life is something that passes you by whilst you are preparing for death."
Heb 11:1 (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Sound like belief with lack of evidence to me.
Luke 17:5 (NIV) The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!" He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you."
Can any one actually do this - O wait this is not to be taken literally - my bad
Science however gave us another way to deal with real trees.
Rom 10:17 (Phi) Faith, you see, can only come from hearing the message, and the message is the word of Christ.
We came we heard but we left, the evidence is lacking.
Heb 2:1-3 (Phi) We ought, therefore, to pay the greatest attention to the truththat we have heard and not allow ourselves to drift away from it. For IFthe message given through angels proved authentic, so that defiance of it and disobedience to it received appropriate retribution, how shall we escape if we refuse to pay proper attention to that greater salvation which is offered us? For this salvation came first through the words of the Lord himself.
Hey lookee, Pascal's wager right there in the bible.
i kind of get what your sayin MR5150 they are sooooo convinced that nothing exist's outside the material platform and this does take a kind of faith,but im sure they have their reasons so just let them be,there is no-harm in what they beleive,maybe in time they will understand that their is more to life than what's outside,anyhoo all in all what matters is whats on the inside and im sure that alot of atheist's are really good people,God's personality is not present on this planet at the moment,so it is hard to know exactly what the truth is.
Oh doeable, just when I thought you was comin' along, son!
Atheism is most often arrived at after thinking and examining the so-called evidence for some improbable and illogical godly being. Usually about when we approach maturity and a sentient mindset (≈ 18 to 25 yrs of age plus some post-high-school education...)
We children who were essentially forced into attendance @ Sunday School were convinced mostly by fear, intimidation and threats (I can still remember them!). And the church elders and those responsible for the approved Sunday School curriculum are guilty as sin of vile intellectual dishonesty. They should be summarily prosecuted.
But it's apparent that this sort of assumed security and stubborn resistance to open-minded thinking is the preferred mode for a large percentage of our population. They have also learned to howl the appropriate (but inane) talking points we hear repeated so often. You know them: "It's only a theory", or "God spoke to me through the sunset last night!", or "The Big Bang is a wild guess with no supporting evidence!", or "You have no evidence for what you claim!", and the best: "Science is all a big conspiracy!".
Well of course. Those statements are all true, right? Else, where would intransigent Christian denialists be left? Drowning in the excrement of falsehoods, that's where, sorry to say. (Don't worry, doeable: I won't abandon you just yet. I still think I can save you! Trust in me, my son!)
Some, of course, cannot ever be saved by the truth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24
You're claiming to own the high ground of "reason and logic." Do you have a reasoned and logical argument that actually supports your atheistic perspective?
Your post contains nothing more than quotes and assertions expressed in an authoritative (as 'from the burning bush') manner. It may play well with your fellow skeptics and atheists in the peanut gallery or gain additional reps (wow!)...however, beyond that, very unconvincing.
No-one claims any high ground here, but when it comes to comparing the so-called "arguments" of Christians against those of the truly logical (as embodied by the Scientific Method and it's trained adherents...), there is no comparison, really.
Actually, you've seen, time and again, those many simple, truthful and oh-so-logical arguments, but you continue to CHOOSE to DENY and IGNORE them. You prefer to remain unconvinced, even if it's that 1+1 = 2. That part's plainly obvious, tgm24.
You could not win an adjudicated argument against most of the atheists here. The judges would excuse you when you began sputtering and choking on your unsupportable claims, or when you outright refused to answer a specific question that would logically corner you. Good thing you can hide here behind on-line anonymity!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Yes, in themself and their self-gained knowledge.
Far better than having others do all your thinking for you, and just blindly and uncritically accepting it, don't you think, jimmiej? BTW, despite the continuing and idiotic onslaughts against scientific inquiry by "the great intellectually unwashed" [PS: that's you guys!], the understandings and accumulated knowledge thus gained is hardly meaningless.
Sorry that it continues to give your koo-koo versions of things such heartburn, but hey; them's the breaks when the truth's at stake, huh? The scientific process pretty much guarantees it's of a high quality, completely repeatable and documented, unlike the weird claims of the religious...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan
Is self gained knowledge better,or a religious belief taught to you by others you think must be smarter than yourself?
Exactly, lifer! Imagine just buying into every late-night infommercial ("these knives will cut through a steel bolt like it was butter! And!!!... they never need sharpening! We guarantee it! just $19.95 [plus shipping and handling...]). Yup! you betcha! And god's comin' back soon too!
...or: "God will save you from a firey hell, but only if you send us a kind donation to support our ministry of untruths!"
...or: "Evolution is only an unproven theory!"
Blah blah blah!ad infinitum. Really! you ought to try reading a bit; you never know where facts might lead your mind!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
I don't know, but a choice to place one's faith in Jesus Christ is better than both! It provides eternal security & riches beyond human comprehension.
Hardly. Example: would placing your personal faith completely in, let's hypothetically say, the FSM, be better than nothing? As in: Would accepting myths and illogical nonsense in place of logic and provable facts be a better choice? Just feeling good about some antique fantasy is hardly being in a better place, since it provides essentially nothing useful when you need to make important, possibly life-altering "REAL" decisions.
I've happily achieved spiritual and intellectual riches well beyond your limited comprehension by avoiding tying my life and mind up in outrageous and dangerous fantasies. I prefer to have clear and focused vision, and not some LSD-like viewpoint through god-colored glasses.
But if that works for you, go for it. I can always spot IDTr Christians a long ways off though; you folks have a sort of tilted off-kilter way of thinking that biases your entire world-view. Must be interesting!
Trees are meant to be enjoyed. Not destroyed.[/indent]
They serve a purpose yes, but why try and command a tree to be cast into the sea when you simply can chop it down, bore out the root trunk and dispose of it either by firewood of the like. The verse implies, faith accomplishes all things yet uses a simple thing that can be dealt with in the real world using real skills and real tools. Even back then they could do it with their hands.
I don't have an auger but I have a chainsaw, you go pray away a tree and I will use my tools to fell it and chop it up, dig out the roots and we shall see whose tree gets moved the first.
The other rendition of the verse is mountain and man can move mountains by sheer application of labor or machinery. No one ever moved a mountain except of course Paul Crouch that claimed he prayed away a mountain when a signal of his beloved TBN was not getting through to somewhere. Of course no seismologic event occurred to back up his claim.
Why would I not expect you to see an explanation of how your theory about something you know nothing about is flawed in view of the fact you still see it as a belief.
The fact you choose to label my response as arrogant clearly shows you have no intention of listening, and more importantly learning anything about what others think and know. The mind is like a book, it is only useful when open, closed it resembles a block of wood.
Unattractive, really it's a beauty contest? Actually if you want to know what is unattractive, it is deliberate ignorance. Your eagerness to wave the arrogance flag speaks poorly of your ability to deal with the ideas of others, especially sad because you are the one that solicited the responses, but now unable to deal with the responses in a mature fashion. You put the baited hook in the water, and are now unable to deal with the results.
Last edited by Asheville Native; 04-13-2011 at 11:21 PM..
They serve a purpose yes, but why try and command a tree to be cast into the sea when you simply can chop it down, bore out the root trunk and dispose of it either by firewood of the like. The verse implies, faith accomplishes all things yet uses a simple thing that can be dealt with in the real world using real skills and real tools. Even back then they could do it with their hands.
I don't have an auger but I have a chainsaw, you go pray away a tree and I will use my tools to fell it and chop it up, dig out the roots and we shall see whose tree gets moved the first.
The other rendition of the verse is mountain and man can move mountains by sheer application of labor or machinery. No one ever moved a mountain except of course Paul Crouch that claimed he prayed away a mountain when a signal of his beloved TBN was not getting through to somewhere. Of course no seismologic event occurred to back up his claim.
I have a Sthil 250 with an 18 inch bar. I think you assume to much. IMO some atheists are too quick to paint theists with a broad brush. It would be much better to just accept those with whom you disagree as people and enjoy life as you know it.
Some atheists come across as narrowminded and hateful as religious fundies.
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Nope, only the theist have faith
Oh my...
It provides eternal security & riches beyond human comprehension.
