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We live on a cul de sac now and we will never do it again. Every kid in the neighborhood comes over to play basketball at night in the summer. So, we can't leave our windows open, and in Portland you don't really need air conditioning.
"And if sidewalks all add another 2K to a homes price then thats like $2.00 more a month on a 30 year mortgage. Come on... count out one Starbucks Latte and you can make that payment. Cable cost how much more but we feel we have to have a box that cuts us off from our neighbors that cost us 50-100 bucks a month and we wont' shell out $2 for a sense of community??"
You obviously haven't worked with nice folks who are straining to grab the bottom rung on the ladder, entry level housing. Folks who may have never been to Starbucks. Some days every dollar counts. You would deny them so you knew that someone got sidewalks they didn't ask for?
I stand in the street for long periods of time talking to neighbors. Kids come by on bikes, with balls, playing football, etc. They yell "car," in the unlikely event one comes by and they clear the street. Other neighbors jog by, or stop and chat. It all works well, and no one has ever said we should have sidewalks.
It would be financially and environmentally ludicrous and wasteful on many levels to put sidewalks on our street, and many streets in my neighborhood.
At least if I choose to spend MY money on cable or coffee, I get something I wanted in return.
Until Monday, I live in a little "fishing village" that just happens to share a zip code with a Seattle metro area. Just shortly after I moved in here, a 12-year-old boy was killed by a non-speeding car because he was playing in the street and not wearing reflective clothing.
I am torn by his death to his day - and what his parents are going through - and what the neighbour whose street-side the death occurred on - and the guy who accidently killed him at 9:30ish at night on a PNW winter night. With that in mind, all I can say to all of the parents out there is this:
Keep your babies safe. Teach them that even a slow moving car is thousands of pounds heavier than they are. Teach them to not be in the way.
I, for one and based on this horrible incident will, NEVER AGAIN, live in a place where it's OK for kids to play in the street. And if you'd like me to take piccies of little Justin's memorial before I leave here on Monday, just ask. I'll be happy to do so - and post.
Come on... count out one Starbucks Latte and you can make that payment.
While I might be willing to forgo a latte, I'm pretty sure my wife would rather give up our bedroom than miss out on her morning coffee .
But your point is a good one - in the greater scheme of things, items like side walks and so on really don't add that much to the monthly payment. Seems like folks just see the price difference and don't spend the time doing the math to figure out how little it costs per month.
Wow! Someone should rename this thread from "what does family friendly mean?" to "should children play in the streets?"
My 2 cents worth (and probably not worth that much:-). In our neighborhood, streets are used by a lot more than just cars. People walk on them, push strollers, walk their dogs. People jog, ride their bicycles. Parents and children walk or bike from their houses to neighbors homes. We have block parties for major holidays (Halloween, 4th of July, etc.).
I personally wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood where this was frowned upon or discouraged. For me, it would kill the sense of community that I find so important.
When I drive through my neighborhood, I always take it nice and slow. I know there are children around, and I know that children don't always have the best judgment. Even if I weren't liable, I don't think I could live with myself if I hit a child with my car, much less killed one.
I stand in the street for long periods of time talking to neighbors. Kids come by on bikes, with balls, playing football, etc. They yell "car," in the unlikely event one comes by and they clear the street. Other neighbors jog by, or stop and chat. It all works well, and no one has ever said we should have sidewalks.
Just wondering if you ever walk out of your neighborhood into another neighborhood or another area. I really honestly am interested. Like I said I've never lived in a suburb before.. I'm ignorant. With sidewalks it is very easy for me to leave my neighborhood and walk downtown, to another side of the city, another neighborhood etc. It cuts down on cars and increasesmy exercise. I realize things are spread out more in Cary/Raleigh/ Durham so this might not be as practical. But honestly do you walk out of your neighborhood? If not or not that often is that the norm for your neighborhood? And is it more a factor of the people's preferances or lack of sidewalks? I know "build it and they will come" is not always the case... Euro-Disney is a great example of this. Really I'm just curious.
Just wondering if you ever walk out of your neighborhood into another neighborhood or another area. I really honestly am interested. Like I said I've never lived in a suburb before.. I'm ignorant. With sidewalks it is very easy for me to leave my neighborhood and walk downtown, to another side of the city, another neighborhood etc. It cuts down on cars and increasesmy exercise. I realize things are spread out more in Cary/Raleigh/ Durham so this might not be as practical. But honestly do you walk out of your neighborhood? If not or not that often is that the norm for your neighborhood? And is it more a factor of the people's preferances or lack of sidewalks? I know "build it and they will come" is not always the case... Euro-Disney is a great example of this. Really I'm just curious.
First, a point on sidewalks: while I like seeing neighborhoods get sidewalks, one trend these days is for sidewalks to be installed only on one side of the road. Though this may look like a way of doing things "cheaper," it also reduces the amount of water-impermeable surface in the development -- which helps with stormwater management. It's now considered 'greener' in many cases to do sidewalks on just one side.
There are definitely areas here where you can and where many people do walk out of their neighbhorhoods. In Durham, the downtown neighborhoods like Trinity Park are big on this, thanks to sidewalk connections and shopping nearby (Brightleaf, downtown, Ninth St., Northgate).
Also, in Durham and Raleigh (and I presume Cary/Apex/CH too?) the greenway/trail systems are very popular. Here in Durham, the American Tobacco Trail passes between downtown and (almost) Streets at Southpoint -- it will connect all the way to the mall in a couple of years. In n'hoods like Woodcroft, there are definitely people who'll use the trail to bike down to the shopping center/grocery at NC 54 and Fayetteville. Raleigh also has a very awesome trail system.
Just wondering if you ever walk out of your neighborhood into another neighborhood or another area. I really honestly am interested. Like I said I've never lived in a suburb before.. I'm ignorant. With sidewalks it is very easy for me to leave my neighborhood and walk downtown, to another side of the city, another neighborhood etc. It cuts down on cars and increasesmy exercise. I realize things are spread out more in Cary/Raleigh/ Durham so this might not be as practical. But honestly do you walk out of your neighborhood? If not or not that often is that the norm for your neighborhood? And is it more a factor of the people's preferances or lack of sidewalks? I know "build it and they will come" is not always the case... Euro-Disney is a great example of this. Really I'm just curious.
I can walk through a few adjoining neighborhoods.
Here in deep suburbia, walking to retail and services requires a dedicated hike.
But for a stroll, I can get all the walking I need in two or three neighborhoods, safely, without ever stepping on a sidewalk.
And don't get me wrong, I certainly recognize there are many streets and boulevards that are not walkable and pedestrians should be wary of.
But this thread turned to a lot of posts with absolutes and attitude in lieu of considerations, and at that point it is easy to turn to personal choice as a good default position.
Not all streets need sidewalks. Many to most streets shouldn't have pedestrians in them, but to cross. Cary is in process of putting sidewalks along heavily traveled thoroughfares, with Cary Parkway recently receiving a few miles of sidewalk. That is a great thing.
But if they proposed to do so on our short dead end street, I would argue against it with some fervor. It would be an unnecessary hassle that I think would hurt my property value.
I haven't lived in a home with a sidewalk in front since 1992 and haven't lived anywhere that I have missed it. That house was four blocks from a central business district in a small town. We walked to retail and services.
If I lived three blocks from Cameron Village, or Glenwood Ave., I would expect a decent walkway to access services on foot.
Just wondering if you ever walk out of your neighborhood into another neighborhood or another area. I really honestly am interested. Like I said I've never lived in a suburb before.. I'm ignorant. With sidewalks it is very easy for me to leave my neighborhood and walk downtown, to another side of the city, another neighborhood etc. It cuts down on cars and increasesmy exercise. I realize things are spread out more in Cary/Raleigh/ Durham so this might not be as practical. But honestly do you walk out of your neighborhood? If not or not that often is that the norm for your neighborhood? And is it more a factor of the people's preferances or lack of sidewalks? I know "build it and they will come" is not always the case... Euro-Disney is a great example of this. Really I'm just curious.
I have yet to live in a neighborhood with sidewalks my entire life. As a child growing up in an Atlanta suburb, there were sidewalks (on one side) of the main street that the neighborhood spilled out into. We used these to walk to the nearby school. But inside the two neighborhoods I lived in as a child, there we no sidewalks and none needed. I was able to walk, jog, or bike for many miles along the interconnected neighborhood streets. If I saw a care coming, I was taught to get off the road and into one of the nearby yards.
I've lived in Raleigh since 1988, and owned two homes since 1991. Both of the neighborhoods are similar in that side walks really aren't necessary - IMO, there just isn't sufficient traffic to justify it. Unlike Atlanta, though, there aren't side walks on the major roads onto which the neighborhoods spill, at least not out where I live. That is a negative. People still walk, jog and bike (no bike paths, either) along the side of the roads, and I see the occasional person riding a horse as well. There are well-worn paths that serve the purpose of a side walk, but are not nearly as nice nor heavily used.
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