What Does "Family Friendly" Mean anyway? (Raleigh: low income, house)
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
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Children can play in the front yard - nothing in the ordinance against that.
I can maybe see on a quiet cul-de-sac you would let your children play in the street. But I've never lived in a neighborhood (in NC or VA) where I think kids would be safe playing in the main streets going through a neighborhood. I am surprised that more neighborhoods don't have sidewalks - here I see families walking around, sometimes pulling a wagon with kids in it, or pushing a stroller, or kids riding along on bikes with them. All safely on the sidewalk.
I fail to see how the "freedom to play in the street" is better than that..
Hmmm. I guess I could make the same argument about you only thinking of your own selfishness??
By the way, in my opinion, bad move comparing children to dogs and cigarette butts!!
I would have to disagree with you about a car hitting a child in the street being a "cut and dried" case where the child would automatically be at fault!
Somehow I think most parents whose child was struck by a car(even if the child was at fault) would secure an attorney who would do a a very good job in a courtroom convincing a jury that the driver was at fault.
I wasn't going to tell you this, but, I feel like listening to a John Phillip Sousa march and saluting after reading your posts!
Yes I am a Raleigh Police Officer. I'm not being selfish at all in saying I don't like seeing kids playing in the street. There is nothing selfish in me stating that erecting a basketball goal in the street is against the law. As I said earlier I could care less about kids playing in the street. When I go through a neighborhood I'll tell them to be careful and watch out for cars and leave it at that. However when a citizen complains about this problem in a specific area I'm obligated to do something since it is against the law.
Not a bad move at all comparing kids to cigarette butts, this is not a direct comparison (brush up on your reading comprehension). This comparison was simply used to illustrate the fact that people engage in all kinds of common activities that are against the law and show disregard to their fellow citizens and community.
I've investigated a few different traffic accidents involving pedestrians (children) who were either playing in the street or riding a device not approved for street use (like one of those cheap mini-bikes) and no charges were ever filed against the driver unless he/she was found to be grossly exceeding the speed limit. Other than aggravating factors like speeding or driving while intoxicated these cases are "cut and dry". A pedestrian has the right to be on the street however a child playing in the street is not a pedestrian. A pedestrian has to obey the same rules vehicles do while in the street including walking in the same direction traffic is traveling (and many other crazy laws that most people don't realize). A child playing basketball or any other game in the street is not considered a pedestrian, they turn into a non-vehicular hazard.
"Not every child has access to a park or a ymca. I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, only that one needs to have grace towards the children around us"
^Why wouldn't a kid have access to a park or ymca? I'm not even going to go down that steep slope (a statement like that makes me want to make a list of what is wrong with society today) but if you can't provide a yard large enough for your kids and can't find a safe location to take them to play then it sounds like you don't need to have kids. That's just the penalty of having kids, you have to provide for them. If you do allow them to play in the street you have to realize they are risking there safety in doing so. Not many people would want to purposely injure a child but accidents happen daily (a kid just ran into a bus riding a vehicle not for street use/dirt bike in the street the other day). Tragic situation but the bus driver was not found to be at fault, the child was.
A.Symetrical said it best using the term "Entitlement Mentality". Bottom line is yes kids play basketball and do other things in the street they shouldn't do but that doesn't entitle them to special consideration when it comes to the law. Parents don't care until their child gets hurt or has a close call and it is only then when people realize they should have been more prudent in their judgement regarding the situation. I love kids and often stop and talk with them, give them stickers and try to brighten their day when I interact with them. Playing in the street is a risk as are many things in life and some people allow their children to take risks like that. If you live on a quiet street or cul-de-sac the risk is obviously lower but LIGHTNING CAN STRIKE ANYWHERE AT ANYTIME and playing in the street brings with it more dangers than just being hit by a vehicle and things like this occur daily in raleigh.
Overall I agree with RaleighRob when he says most of the triangle is family friendly. Many neighborhoods now have special play areas designated for children's recreation/play.
Nothing says that kids can't play in their yard, front, back or side. I admit, I am floored by the amount of people that feel playing in the street is acceptable behavior.
When I was growing up (in the 70s mind you) it was grounds for a neighbor to call your mother to go remove and punish you. Now the parents are telling their kids to do it!!
That's how I was raised also (in the 80's/90's) and my parents always stressed to me to stay out of the street.
Thanks for posting the info (adlnc07) you saved me from doing it. Raleigh and most cities have similar statutes to what you posted.
Yes I am a Raleigh Police Officer. As I said earlier I could care less about kids playing in the street. When I go through a neighborhood I'll tell them to be careful and watch out for cars and leave it at that. However when a citizen complains about this problem in a specific area I'm obligated to do something since it is against the law.
Agreed but I still don't get the feeling that you could "care less" about kids playing in the street. Sorry, just being honest. Hopefuly the "something" that you are "obligated" to do is simply talk and reason with people rather than to blindly give out citations in order to meet pre-established quotas?
I will definitely be looking for a cul-de-sac street where kids regularly play in the street and socialize. It's not the playing in the street part that I desire for my child, it is the socialization with other kids!! Of course there are other places other than the street where kids can socialize. But isn't it a nice idea if they can ALSO use the street in front of their homes in a safe manner, EVEN IF IT IS AGAINST THE LAW??
By the way how many US drivers do you think speed on a daily basis? Do all speeders get into accidents and kill people?? Dare I say, officer, have you ever exceeded the speed limit??! Have you ever technically broken the law??
Not a bad move at all comparing kids to cigarette butts, this is not a direct comparison (brush up on your reading comprehension).
Huh?? Not a direct comparison? What is it then, an indirect comparison?? You did make the comparison right??
As to my reading comprehension?? What does that have to do with the price of sleeping bags in Afganistan?? There is no problem with my reading comprehension. However, there is a problem with your simile(definition=a figure of speech in which two unlike things are explicity compared. I looked this definition up for you!!) Allow me to "spell it out" for you. People who are responsible parents don't like to hear that any child is being compared to a dog or a cigarrette butt!! Officer, if you are going to attempt to refute what I say, then please don't come to "the intellectual table of life" unarmed.
I've investigated a few different traffic accidents involving pedestrians (children) who were either playing in the street or riding a device not approved for street use (like one of those cheap mini-bikes) and no charges were ever filed against the driver unless he/she was found to be grossly exceeding the speed limit. Other than aggravating factors like speeding or driving while intoxicated these cases are "cut and dry".
Yes, from your vantage point most cases would be cut and dry in terms of whether the act fits the definition of a violation of law. After all, by definition, your job invovles "law enforcement". But simply because citations are issued, that doesn't mean they will stand up in court. I am not saying that I support jury decisions that I consider to be bad decisions. I am simply pointing out that our legal system and LIFE is not so simple to be cut and dry in every situation. Therefore it seems SILLY to me when people make blanket statements about what OTHERS SHOULD BE DOING AND NOT DOING! Isn't life something to be enjoyed? Is it better to focus on code enforcement or simply to focus on treating others as you would like to be treated? Will everyone reciprocate? Absolutely not. But as adults we know this and are not surprised by it right?
"Not every child has access to a park or a ymca. I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, only that one needs to have grace towards the children around us"^Why wouldn't a kid have access to a park or ymca?
Uhmmm..how about if their parent(s) can't afford a membership??
but if you can't provide a yard large enough for your kids and can't find a safe location to take them to play then it sounds like you don't need to have kids. That's just the penalty of having kids, you have to provide for them.
Agreed parents have the responsibility to provide for their children. But I have never considered having children to be a "penalty". Instead I find it a JOY to be a parent. Having kids certainly can cause a "financial hardship" in that as an adult I can't go do all the things I once could when I had no children. But I find that the JOY of having children more than makes up for any material pleasure that I can no longer afford!
A.Symetrical said it best using the term "Entitlement Mentality". Bottom line is yes kids play basketball and do other things in the street they shouldn't do but that doesn't entitle them to special consideration when it comes to the law.
(The Sousa march just ended and I stopped saluting so I could type again!)
"When it comes to the law"....what does that phrase mean? Let's cite and arrest all the 10 year olds who are playing basketball illegally in the street! Let's also fine their parents!! Is that what it means??
Don't you as a police officer enforce some laws more consistently than others? Do you cite each and every speeder the same(even the mayor's kid, the town council member's kid, your superior at work's kid???)?? Are not things like "cold blooded" murder a more "cut and dry" crime than SOME CHILDREN ILLEGALLY PLAYING BASKETBALL IN THE STREET??
If the mayor or town council member's child committed a murder isn't that a crime that you have no choice but to enforce?? Isn't life full of examples of people who GET special treatment whether they are ENTITLED to it or not?? You probably are not going to eliminate all the "unfair things in life" by enforcing all the rules in the entire world!!!
I'm not saying I agree with some people getting special treatment nor do I support it. But in order to stay sane, I have to make peace with the reality that is. Enforcing a law against basketball goals in the street would not be a high priority on my list if I were a police officer!
By the way, you and I probably have more in common than you might suspect! My father was an MP in the US Army. So I think I know about growing up with discipline, structure, consistency, and the importance of "following the rules"!!!
Additionally, I am an RN so part of my job is to attempt to save people's lives in critical situations. I have probably seen tragic situations that are as serious if not more so than anything you have encountered "on the street". Just so you don't think I am speaking out of turn here! Granted, I don't have people shooting at me when I'm working!
In my opinion most police officers have a tough job and don't get the respect that they deserve. Don't some officers become jaded and angry when you see a "known criminal" get out of jail yet again or dodge what looked like a sure conviction?? "But those damn kids playing basketball illegally in the street aren't going to get away with it right!?"
Hey, I think you are a nice person and probably don't get the respect that you deserve and you might think I am a jerk. But then again, maybe we both are wrong?!!
Yes I am a Raleigh Police Officer. I'm not being selfish at all in saying I don't like seeing kids playing in the street. There is nothing selfish in me stating that erecting a basketball goal in the street is against the law. As I said earlier I could care less about kids playing in the street. When I go through a neighborhood I'll tell them to be careful and watch out for cars and leave it at that. However when a citizen complains about this problem in a specific area I'm obligated to do something since it is against the law.
Agreed but I still don't get the feeling that you could "care less" about kids playing in the street. Sorry, just being honest. Hopefuly the "something" that you are "obligated" to do is simply talk and reason with people rather than to blindly give out citations in order to meet pre-established quotas?
I will definitely be looking for a cul-de-sac street where kids regularly play in the street and socialize. It's not the playing in the street part that I desire for my child, it is the socialization with other kids!! Of course there are other places other than the street where kids can socialize. But isn't it a nice idea if they can ALSO use the street in front of their homes in a safe manner, EVEN IF IT IS AGAINST THE LAW??
By the way how many US drivers do you think speed on a daily basis? Do all speeders get into accidents and kill people?? Dare I say, officer, have you ever exceeded the speed limit??! Have you ever technically broken the law??
Amen! I don't understand that either...considering everyone has a backyard...as a kid, we played in the backyard! I think it's very dangerous. I told my realtor NO CUL-DE-SACS! for that reason, that invites kids to congregate! no thanks!
So basically you DON'T want to live in a family friendly neighborhood
Not a bad move at all comparing kids to cigarette butts, this is not a direct comparison (brush up on your reading comprehension). This comparison was simply used to illustrate the fact that people engage in all kinds of common activities that are against the law and show disregard to their fellow citizens and community.
Huh?? Not a direct comparison? What is it then, an indirect comparison?? You did make the comparison right??
As to my reading comprehension?? What does that have to do with the price of sleeping bags in Afganistan?? There is no problem with my reading comprehension. However, there is a problem with your simile(definition=a figure of speech in which two unlike things are explicity compared. I looked this definition up for you!!) Allow me to "spell it out" for you. People who are responsible parents don't like to hear that any child is being compared to a dog or a cigarrette butt!! Officer, if you are going to attempt to refute what I say, then please don't come to "the intellectual table of life" unarmed.
I've investigated a few different traffic accidents involving pedestrians (children) who were either playing in the street or riding a device not approved for street use (like one of those cheap mini-bikes) and no charges were ever filed against the driver unless he/she was found to be grossly exceeding the speed limit. Other than aggravating factors like speeding or driving while intoxicated these cases are "cut and dry". A pedestrian has the right to be on the street however a child playing in the street is not a pedestrian. A pedestrian has to obey the same rules vehicles do while in the street including walking in the same direction traffic is traveling (and many other crazy laws that most people don't realize). A child playing basketball or any other game in the street is not considered a pedestrian, they turn into a non-vehicular hazard.
Yes, from your vantage point most cases would be cut and dry in terms of whether the act fits the definition of a violation of law. After all, by definition, your job invovles "law enforcement". But simply because citations are issued, that doesn't mean they will stand up in court. I am not saying that I support jury decisions that I consider to be bad decisions. I am simply pointing out that our legal system and LIFE is not so simple to be cut and dry in every situation. Therefore it seems SILLY to me when people make blanket statements about what OTHERS SHOULD BE DOING AND NOT DOING! Isn't life something to be enjoyed? Is it better to focus on code enforcement or simply to focus on treating others as you would like to be treated? Will everyone reciprocate? Absolutely not. But as adults we know this and are not surprised by it right?
"Not every child has access to a park or a ymca. I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, only that one needs to have grace towards the children around us"
^Why wouldn't a kid have access to a park or ymca?
Uhmmm..how about if their parent(s) can't afford a membership??
... but if you can't provide a yard large enough for your kids and can't find a safe location to take them to play then it sounds like you don't need to have kids. That's just the penalty of having kids, you have to provide for them.
Agreed parents have the responsibility to provide for their children. But I have never considered having children to be a "penalty". Instead I find it a JOY to be a parent. Having kids certainly can cause a "financial hardship" in that as an adult I can't go do all the things I once could when I had no children. But I find that the JOY of having children more than makes up for any material pleasure that I can no longer afford!
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I told my realtor NO CUL-DE-SACS! for that reason, that invites kids to congregate! no thanks!
