Apple Campus in RTP area? (Raleigh, Durham: special education, needs, distances)

[wizard-xyzzy]

Originally Posted by Fiona8484

Sorry to break the news to you, but recent comp sci college grads aren't dying to work at Lenovo or IBM. They are going to tell you their top choice is Google, Apple, Facebook or Amazon.

I think that's true. But 30 years ago, in terms of IT employers, IBM and Nortel were highly desirable places to work. They also transferred in thousands of people. When their headcounts peaked, Cisco and Ericsson ramped up. When their headcount peaked, Fidelity and Credit Suisse and Netapp and Metlife came in. Companies have life cycles, and new grads have always had their eyes on who's cool and who's not. Apple has had a long run, but the time will come when their headcount peaks too and they will look stodgy to new grads. 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? Hard to say.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by uncchgrad

I agree. I forgot to mention that in my post. FL derives a huge amount of revenue from the tourism industry, as well as the FL turnpike and other toll roads.

My biggest grip with NJ is that it has many ways to collect revenue. That NJ turnpike is out of control. They incorporated a large, very very heavily traveled segment of I-95 from Philly to NYC into their turnpike. That absolutely must bring in tons of annual revenue to that state. Not to mention that horrific Garden State Parkway. So why are they always broke?

I question why that state is not better off financially. They tax the crap out of their citizens and have a below average public educational system. Most of their big cities look like crap. Nevertheless the money sources seem to be there, but you would never know from the looks of that state.

It's been 15 years or so, but the smaller towns ~45 mins from the GWB were quite idyllic. I assume they are still like that, albeit with even higher property taxes.

This was written a few years after I left but it details how it went down:

The Mob That Whacked Jersey

Jon Corzine was caught red handed promising public unions goodies in exchange for their votes. Chris Christie was in part elected because of the fleecing Corzine gave to taxpayers. On an average home in NJ, homeowners pay monthly what my entire mortgage is down here. Crazy.

Eventually NC will catch up and become more expensive. It will take time but slowly it will happen.

Unfortunately, we are seeing the same thing at a federal level today, just replace generic citizens for public unions.

[JONOV]

Originally Posted by wizard-xyzzy

I think that's true. But 30 years ago, in terms of IT employers, IBM and Nortel were highly desirable places to work. They also transferred in thousands of people. When their headcounts peaked, Cisco and Ericsson ramped up. When their headcount peaked, Fidelity and Credit Suisse and Netapp and Metlife came in. Companies have life cycles, and new grads have always had their eyes on who's cool and who's not. Apple has had a long run, but the time will come when their headcount peaks too and they will look stodgy to new grads. 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? Hard to say.

The reasons I wouldn't want to work for IBM or Lenovo have little to do with how young, skinny and good looking they are or aren't. I can also tell you that the reasons I wouldn't want to work for them are the same reasons I wouldn't want to work for Amazon, despite the Halo around Amazon, that is unless the job/opportunity itself was incredible and a pile of money was thrown at me.

[michgc]

Originally Posted by uncchgrad

I agree. I forgot to mention that in my post. FL derives a huge amount of revenue from the tourism industry, as well as the FL turnpike and other toll roads.

My biggest grip with NJ is that it has many ways to collect revenue. That NJ turnpike is out of control. They incorporated a large, very very heavily traveled segment of I-95 from Philly to NYC into their turnpike. That absolutely must bring in tons of annual revenue to that state. Not to mention that horrific Garden State Parkway. So why are they always broke?

I question why that state is not better off financially. They tax the crap out of their citizens and have a below average public educational system. Most of their big cities look like crap. Nevertheless the money sources seem to be there, but you would never know from the looks of that state.

Yes, they have very high taxes, but their public schools are considered among the best in the nation, second only to perhaps Massachusetts. Where did you get the idea that they are below average?

[uncchgrad]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

It's been 15 years or so, but the smaller towns ~45 mins from the GWB were quite idyllic. I assume they are still like that, albeit with even higher property taxes.

This was written a few years after I left but it details how it went down:

The Mob That Whacked Jersey

Jon Corzine was caught red handed promising public unions goodies in exchange for their votes. Chris Christie was in part elected because of the fleecing Corzine gave to taxpayers. On an average home in NJ, homeowners pay monthly what my entire mortgage is down here. Crazy.

Eventually NC will catch up and become more expensive. It will take time but slowly it will happen.

Unfortunately, we are seeing the same thing at a federal level today, just replace generic citizens for public unions.

The unions, the mob, political corruption...all of that tax and toll revenue has to be going somewhere, and most of it sure ain't going into their cities, transportation, nor educational system.

[uncchgrad]

Originally Posted by michgc

Yes, they have very high taxes, but their public schools are considered among the best in the nation, second only to perhaps Massachusetts. Where did you get the idea that they are below average?

I was mainly thinking about Rutgers. I would think that it would be higher in the national rankings than it currently is. On the other hand, their K-12 public schools may be average or above average nationally.

[cheese_cakes]

Originally Posted by wizard-xyzzy

I think that's true. But 30 years ago, in terms of IT employers, IBM and Nortel were highly desirable places to work. They also transferred in thousands of people. When their headcounts peaked, Cisco and Ericsson ramped up. When their headcount peaked, Fidelity and Credit Suisse and Netapp and Metlife came in. Companies have life cycles, and new grads have always had their eyes on who's cool and who's not. Apple has had a long run, but the time will come when their headcount peaks too and they will look stodgy to new grads. 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? Hard to say.

IBM was and has had some what of a downfall from its glory days but it's tough to shake a top company like that. Proof being, IBM keeps reinventing themselves and is still one of the top companies in tech. You have to realize FAANG is the absolute tip of the iceberg but in the grand scheme of things IBM is still a top dog.

Same with Cisco. Okay, it may not be a FAANG or what it was in the year 2000 but it's still a top company. I can't post this message without it going through some Cisco product somewhere.

My point is companies that make it really big stay pretty big more often than not. They may not be the top 3-4 of what they once were but will remain as such.

As for Apple btw, there would have to be some very, very significant technology disruption to see its stock decline.

Anyway, this is all speculation on my end. Who knows how it all pans out!

[michgc]

Originally Posted by uncchgrad

I was mainly thinking about Rutgers. I would think that it would be higher in the national rankings than it currently is. On the other hand, their K-12 public schools may be average or above average nationally.

Rutgers is ranked 63rd in national rankings in US News & World Report. That's pretty good for a large state school (36K undergrads) in a state of just under 9 million. Also, going back to it being expensive to live there, their public universities are expensive even for in-state residents, so they lose top-tier students to out-of-state or private schools that cost about the same. Having said that, their K-12 schools are usually rated very highly overall, and their teachers are well paid.

[architect77]

Originally Posted by uncchgrad

The unions, the mob, political corruption...all of that tax and toll revenue has to be going somewhere, and most of it sure ain't going into their cities, transportation, nor educational system.

I hate to say it, but unions are responsible for a lot of expense. During economic downturns and recessions, states have to be flexible since they fund everything with revenue that's currently flowing in.

But I witnessed time and time again while living in NY, that not one union was willing to share in the pain of closing budget holes to the tune of

even 1% pay cuts that would result in everyone paid by the state sharing the pain equally.

They were like, "We don't care where you find the money, but don't come asking us for any concessions."

Now I know some unions like for doormen and custodians and housekeepers are absolutely necessary, because the turnover would be unacceptable with people all over the world arriving to work for a week at low pay then quitting. Doormen who make it their career and stay at their jobs for decades are necessary and they need a voice for benefits etc.

Then there's just the effect of a dollar's value being lower in NYC, and that seeps out into NJ. People commute long distances to receive that NYC salary that buys more in Trenton and in Pennsylvania.

That must have an effect in NJ as well.

Social services are also a lot more generous in NY and likely NJ.

NYC functions with a lot of costs that seem outrageously high, but the bottom line is that it's America's front door, and it's this country putting it's best foot forward for the entire world to see. It should be that way and continue going forward.

North Carolina doesn't have that obligation and is very well governed by conscientious minds with added common sense.

One of the state's top priorities has always been to lift all 100 counties out of poverty and into economic prosperity. That why consumer protections are strong and you enjoy the nation's lowest car insurance premiums (injury awards are capped).

The state government is designed with plenty of checks and balances that keep corruption somewhat under control.

North Carolina's government was fully fleshed out and doing well decades before the influx of extreme growth, and there's no reason not to believe that common sense will continue to prevail.

[Sal_M]

Originally Posted by michgc

Rutgers is ranked 63rd in national rankings in US News & World Report. That's pretty good for a large state school (36K undergrads) in a state of just under 9 million. Also, going back to it being expensive to live there, their public universities are expensive even for in-state residents, so they lose top-tier students to out-of-state or private schools that cost about the same. Having said that, their K-12 schools are usually rated very highly overall, and their teachers are well paid.

It's very much like Long Island, you buy into your town/district. Some are excellent and the housing prices reflect that, others are ok and so are the home prices. The taxes are crazy, either way. NJ has this odd thing with little townships within larger towns. Fanwood is an example. It is in the middle of Scotch Plains. Fanwood has his own town hall, police and library. Keep in mind it is a town of just over 7000 people in the middle of another town. They do not have their own high school they have a send/receive relationship with Scotch Plains High School but their taxes are generally higher than Scotch Plains due to less people paying for town staff and amenities. There are several towns like this in NJ, Garwood is another example.