Apple Campus in RTP area? (Raleigh, Cary: wealthiest, kindergarten, approval)
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
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You only have to look at places like Austin and Denver to see what's coming. SFH are, in fact, going to be for wealthy in desirable areas no matter what. You can't ignore it, and you can't just be upset about and say you wish everyone would have a SFH. Duplexes, triplexes or quads are houses. People need to get over the idea that only SFH is a house and everything in between is some kind of a transitional situation. Homeownership is still one of the only ways to accumulate wealth in this country. If someone wants to get a duplex as a start up house, save their $$ and get a SFH eventually, that's great! It should happen and there should be multi-family homes to have. In this area, those are very rare. I am saying this as someone who actually benefited from getting one side of the duplex at the right time and right place in the past. It allowed me to be comfortable to do things in my early 30s while some of my peers were struggling to save up for a down-payment (some for a condo and not even a SFH). I hope that everyone has that opportunity.
I agree, too many people are in fantasy land over their need to have a single family home. Buy a townhome and build that equity, prices are likely to skyrocket here with the big name companies coming.
I agree, too many people are in fantasy land over their need to have a single family home. Buy a townhome and build that equity, prices are likely to skyrocket here with the big name companies coming.
But that's part of the allure that draws people here. Good, bad or indifferent.
We aren't Austin or Denver. There is no "Keep Raleigh Weird" because we were never weird, we were never a live Music capital, we've never offered Red Rock Amphitheater or skiing/hiking opportunities.
People move here because it's a good balance of career opportunity and COL and safety and QOL. It offers a great compromise between a Fayetteville or a Columbia SC or Bloomington-Normal Illinois and Chicago or DC or Boston.
All things being equal, I would never balk at the price of Denver or Austin; but I would balk at those prices HERE if there wasn't commensurate things offered that made it worth it. Wegmans doesn't quite cut it.
People don't want to drive to a park and ride, then take mass transit, then figure out a way to get to work from there or carpool with coworkers. If it hasn't caught on yet in RTP it won't with the arrival of Apple.
People DO do that who live in NJ and the NY suburbs and work in Manhattan, but there's really no choice, it's not practical at all to drive the full way. So you scrape the ice off your car, drive to the bus or train station, wait for the bus or train, get to the station, walk, take a bus or subway to the office, repeat in the evening...
...and then they move to North Carolina or Florida
I was litterally thinking the exact same thing.
I used to drive 287 -> 80 daily back out of college up in NJ (side note - the smaller towns in NJ are what Wake Forest could have been and the further west and north you go in the state, it gets even prettier) along with many millions of others.
The folks who took public transit (train) from my small(er) town into the city daily did it because they had to, and because it saved time, not because they wanted to.
The last straw for me while taking public transit up there was when a drunk homeless person just pee'd on the bus, and it rolled around on the floor everywhere.
I talked to a peer who lives in Minnie, in one of those swanky apartments right next to the rail line that brings him direct to the airport. His last straw was when a prostitution deal went down in the car with him, and they just doubled teamed the lucky lady. He said the homeless ride the train day and night just to stay out of the elements.
I would imagine there are two basic groups that move to this area, but both are searching for a slower pace and lower COL:
Retirees looking to downsize, pocket their cash from the sale of their home in the NE, and buy something with cash that is a "lock and leave" type arrangement, with access to good medical care
Families who move for a job/remote, who are looking to leave the craziness of the NE and overall general mentality and buy a newer home with some semblance of a yard in an area where you don't have to have bars on your windows (looking at you, NYC).
To me, Raleigh is/was that perfect balance of "big fish in a small pond" type living. We have everything that most large cities did, without the population, traffic, and stress of them.
I used to drive 287 -> 80 daily back out of college up in NJ (side note - the smaller towns in NJ are what Wake Forest could have been and the further west and north you go in the state, it gets even prettier) along with many millions of others.
The folks who took public transit (train) from my small(er) town into the city daily did it because they had to, and because it saved time, not because they wanted to.
The last straw for me while taking public transit up there was when a drunk homeless person just pee'd on the bus, and it rolled around on the floor everywhere.
I talked to a peer who lives in Minnie, in one of those swanky apartments right next to the rail line that brings him direct to the airport. His last straw was when a prostitution deal went down in the car with him, and they just doubled teamed the lucky lady. He said the homeless ride the train day and night just to stay out of the elements.
I would imagine there are two basic groups that move to this are, but both are searching for a slower pace and lower COL:
Retirees looking to downsize, pocket their cash from the sale of their home in the NE, and buy something with cash that is a "lock and leave" type arrangement, with access to good medical care
Families who move for a job/remote, who are looking to leave the craziness of the NE and overall general mentality and buy a newer home with some semblance of a yard in an area where you don't have to have bars on your windows (looking at you, NYC).
To me, Raleigh is/was that perfect balance of "big fish in a small pond" type living. We have everything that most large cities did, without the population, traffic, and stress of them.
Retirees looking to downsize, pocket their cash from the sale of their home in the NE, and buy something with cash that is a "lock and leave" type arrangement, with access to good medical care.
+1
I used to drive 287 -> 80 daily back out of college up in NJ (side note - the smaller towns in NJ are what Wake Forest could have been and the further west and north you go in the state, it gets even prettier) along with many millions of others.
The folks who took public transit (train) from my small(er) town into the city daily did it because they had to, and because it saved time, not because they wanted to.
The last straw for me while taking public transit up there was when a drunk homeless person just pee'd on the bus, and it rolled around on the floor everywhere.
Ha. Yup. I loved the train itself actually, but not the stuff beyond that, and would not have loved that. I also didn't love when I had the window seat on the NJ transit bus and the guy next to me in the aisle seat kept picking his nose and wiping it on his broadsheet newspaper, knowing that I saw him.
It's just a lot. I used to commute from Central NJ (Somerville) to lower Manhattan and it was two hours each way. I quickly moved closer.
That's coming from the suburbs. When I lived directly in the city I was all about buses and the subway.
I'm a huge mass transit fan except for the gross parts - I'd like to have it to the airport.
Yes, fine, everyone. I think you guys keep saying Raleigh isn't like this. My co-worker from Denver moved to Denver from Dallas in 90s. He used to say there literally was nothing between Denver and Boulder at that time. Denver was considered a cow-town until recently. It was a layover town with terrible fried cow testicles for the brave souls who stopped there on the way to Aspen or Vail. Between Denver and Boulder, there was just one open space. Now take a look at it on Google map, and count every single bedroom community between these two cities... just houses, houses, traffic on that turnpike for hours. Same thing about Austin. When my partner went to school there in early 2000s, South Congress area was sketchy, and you didn't even go to east Austin. Now look at that Franklin's BBQ having day long waits, and people moving to Round Rock cause it is one HUGE sprawl.
You guys can keep saying it's not like that, but if the money is good and can be had, people will move here. It doesn't matter what it was your reason or why you moved here. For some people, the reasons are going to be different. Yeah, maybe Denver is different because it's close to the Rockies, but you can't look at Austin and say geographically it's substantially different. It is not. It's TX hill country with a few lakes. Plus its in TX which is effing hotter than here. Yes, they have an amazing music scene, but I am pretty sure someone can put together good pro and con list. It's probably 10 years ahead of us right now... but at some point it won't. It's already getting crowded. What are y'all going to do when all those Zoomers start moving here? Heck, they do not want to drive AT ALL.
Finally, what's wrong with public transit? It's fine if you want to drive your car, but there is no reason to say that's the same feeling everyone has. Pre-covid, I either walked or biked to my work. But, I am privileged to be able to afford a house 5 minutes from my work. We only have 1 car, and I take it when it's raining outside cause ugh who wants to walk or bike then. If I had a public transit nearby, I'd take it on those days. There is nothing wrong with it.
Ha. Yup. I loved the train itself actually, but not the stuff beyond that, and would not have loved that. I also didn't love when I had the window seat on the NJ transit bus and the guy next to me in the aisle seat kept picking his nose and wiping it on his broadsheet newspaper, knowing that I saw him.
It's just a lot. I used to commute from Central NJ (Somerville) to lower Manhattan and it was two hours each way. I quickly moved closer.
That's coming from the suburbs. When I lived directly in the city I was all about buses and the subway.
I'm a huge mass transit fan except for the gross parts - I'd like to have it to the airport.
And yet you then moved down here .
I paid $20 for a car service to go from LGA to JFK a few days ago. It's unbelievable that there is no public transit between those airports. JFK has the air train, which is a joke. And no subway to either airport. UFB.
I have not followed all 123 pages of this thread, and I hate it when people say that and chime in, but I think the appeal of the Triangle as a whole is the family-friendly suburban nature of the beast. I understand the push for density, but that's not why people find the area attractive, IMO.
But there's different models of suburbia. For example, going through Chapel Hill/Carrboro is a bit like traveling in time:
1. Downtown Chapel Hill/Carrboro is mostly pre-WW2 construction. There's houses of various sizes, and a fair number of multi-family units (including garage apartments, etc.). The land values are very high, and if we made it easier to build more densely (either on underutilized land, like the parking lot that's going to become the Carrboro library) or in the neighborhoods immediately surrounding downtown, we'd make it a bit easier for people to live downtown. (Granted, this is made more complex by the historic districts, and the desire to protect the historically Black neighborhoods. But, over time, the cost of that preservation/protection will rise, and people will have to decide whether our current strategies are working).
2. The neighborhoods around Eastwood Lake are typical of development patterns from the 1950s through the 1980s. Lots of cul-de-sacs, large lots, and few sidewalks make it difficult to get anywhere without a car, and even car trips take longer than they should. For people who want to feel like they're living in a forest, but have easy access to shopping, jobs, etc., these neighborhoods are ideal, but the homes there have become out of reach for all but high earners. Once again, the land values would support much greater population density, and there's not the historical issues mentioned above, but people living there have a lot of political power, so it'd take state action to get things to change.
3. The planned communities of Southern Village and Meadowmont are typical of New Urbanism (1990s-2010). For the most part, they include a variety of types of housing, including apartments, townhouses, and large single family homes, and feature some commercial space. The scale and design of these developments make them viable for public transit, and residents there can easily get to work on the bus. They also have greenways which connect to other places. While these developments were controversial when they were built, I think there's general support of these communities, particularly because they have higher income residents (as well as apartment dwellers).
4. The apartment buildings built downtown, and around the shopping centers (Whole Foods, etc.) are the latest phase in development (2010-present). These apartments are a consequence, in part, of failing to plan for growth earlier, particularly the misguided WW2 construction of suburban-style neighborhoods instead of continuing the urban fabric that was developing organically from the university's founding to the 1940s. While the town has the opportunity to build these apartments as transit-intensive developments, with higher density and limited parking, they're splitting the difference a bit too much for my tastes. We need better transit to the apartment buildings around Blue Hill. And, I hope the BRT is funded, and that developments up and down MLK make it possible for people and study and work at UNC to also live there.
I agree, too many people are in fantasy land over their need to have a single family home. Buy a townhome and build that equity, prices are likely to skyrocket here with the big name companies coming.
Because SFH is what we see as actual homes. That's what we draw in kindergarten too. A little house with a tree, two kids and a cat/dog meandering nearby. Sounds familiar?
I paid $20 for a car service to go from LGA to JFK a few days ago. It's unbelievable that there is no public transit between those airports. JFK has the air train, which is a joke. And no subway to either airport. UFB.
I did, but by way of Florida
Totally not bashing transplants. I don't think transplants want to repeat the planes, trains, and automobiles required up there.
That really is ridiculous. I know there's a city bus from LGA but I did not realize you couldn't go between them.
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Retirees looking to downsize
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