Who can help this male understand this women's issue? (therapy, people, men)
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Yes, interesting, isn't it? All is sweetness and light, and even the token male such as Livecontent is tolerated as long as he behaves according to certain rules, much as the token Black was accepted under certain circumstances, but then when the subject of males in general comes up a few women grow fangs and long, sharpened fingernails and start frothing at the mouth, as we have seen illustrated even right here in this thread. Reminds me of Jekyll and Hyde. Everyone please note the three-word phrase I placed in bold.
But even a minority can produce sufficient unpleasantness to keep most normal folks away; after all the Ku Klux Klan terror was probably perpetrated by a minority of whites, but it was quite sufficient to achieve its grim purpose.
Perfect. Just perfect. That sure didn't take long.
But hey, you are just an "objective and rational" guy trying to understand why your [offensive] post to the Women's forum was not warmly accepted.
Oh, wait. I need to copy your post here, just in case. Done.
Escort, may I ask: Do you want my opinion even if it means I don't agree with you? If you don't then please skip the next paragraphs because you are not gonna like them. Seriously, skip them if you don't want any criticism.
Ok here I go:
I get the feeling you think most of us think Runningwithscissors' post was angry and your post is rational and emotion free. That is not the reality, not everybody feels the same way you do. I know I don't. I think you are being just as emotional as she was, you are just using passive agressiveness.
I think you are letting your need to prove the world that you are "right" and defensiveness block your empathy. Did you feel any empathy when she described her parents? The experiences she described are very traumatic and she wants her space and want feedback from people who she thinks empathize with her experiences. Why not leave it alone? She is the one in pain, not you, you are not in her shoes. When I say "she" I am also referring to the women in the retirement forum. People want to be around those who they feel empathize with their pain.
I know you probably don't like my answer but that is how I perceive that interaction.
I don't think their posts are remotely comparable. Escort's was far more considerate and rational. Running with Scissors was on an angry rant from beginning to end.
Perfect. Just perfect. That sure didn't take long.
But hey, you are just an "objective and rational" guy trying to understand why your [offensive] post to the Women's forum was not warmly accepted.
Oh, wait. I need to copy your post here, just in case. Done.
Bless your heart!
Remember his justified frustration you quoted came about after making a great effort to reason with those on the forum and he was basically treated like garbage. When men do an exclusive thread that excludes women for seven years, it will often be called the "Men's Club", sexism, etc. BTW, I am someone who is extremely supportive of women on many issues (job equality, reproductive rights, etc).
Listen folks this question will tell it all. "Why are you crying?" Men and women are different and we think differently. As for women they will ask men "what are you thinking?" The guy will say nothing and really be thinking of nothing but just doing what he is doing. Men and women can't comprehend how each other think that's why they feel more comfortable separated. To combat that for men it's those lady lumps and curves. I have no clue what attrActs women to us men. In closing... maybe some people need to get some offline friends. There goes my male mindset rearing its head again. I just can't take a blog too personal or serious.
Remember his justified frustration you quoted came about after making a great effort to reason with those on the forum and he was basically treated like garbage. When men do an exclusive thread that excludes women for seven years, it will often be called the "Men's Club", sexism, etc. BTW, I am someone who is extremely supportive of women on many issues (job equality, reproductive rights, etc).
It's interesting that you would automatically assume that ER is not only stating the truth, but fully describing the nature of the thread and the latest brouhaha. As ER noted earlier in this thread, he was unaware of any "male bashing" before he posted on the thread. Well, duh. The thread has had several men posting throughout the years and IIRC, only one man was banned (by the moderator) because of his inappropriate comments. Men were NEVER excluded from posting on the thread. The subject matter of the thread has always been about single women retiring alone and the men who posted helpful suggestions were always warmly welcomed. IIRC, EscortRider never posted on the thread until he decided to jump in and rage at the OP for being angry that a moderator had changed the intent of the entire thread by adding "Men and" Women... to the title of the thread. The moderator did this while simultaneously allowing a new thread entitled Single Men retiring alone. Seriously.
I was there. ER described the thread's OP anger as "pathological" and callously dismissed her concerns in a patronizing manner. Oh, yes, and the other posters were described as hateful too. Just lovely, really.
In defending the OP's anger, I apparently showed my fangs and am now a man-hater. Who knew?
ER was treated like garbage? Hardly. I believe my reply to ER's above post says it all.
Yeah, and I distinctly remember another aspect of this, too, which is that if a salesman is dealing with a woman who is not with her husband, he will give her grief just because he can. I am rewinding to the 1980s now, I was visiting a Sears with my first wife. She had gone by herself to the parts counter to get something for the fridge, if I recall correctly. She was getting a polite but opaque run-around, based loosely on the premise that how could she possibly know what she wanted. As soon as I walked up and she said "Hi, honey", his attitude did a 180 degree turn and he suddenly was helpful and produced the requested item in a matter of seconds. It didn't require me saying anything, and I am not some sort of intimidating Mountain Man, either. I simply had to show up and all the respect and attentive helpfulness that should have gone to my wife alone, went to her out of respect for me. I think his assumption probably was she would ask for the wrong part and then come back later with her knickers in a twist to complain about it, but if her husband was there to validate her request by simply not objecting to it, then the problem was solved for him.
It was the most concentrated education in sexism I ever got. I never forgot this glimpse into a woman's reality. Although this was thirty years ago, and things are probably somewhat better, I have little doubt it's still far worse than it needs to be.
My mother used to HATE when it became obvious that she would need to ask my dad to make a phone call for her. It was the exact same thing you're talking about. My mother was very intelligent, articulate and polite. If she needed to resolve something on the phone, she knew exactly what she was talking about. When the person on the other end would refuse to be cooperative, she would eventually give up. My dad could call back and make the very same initial statement as my mom, and the issue would be resolved in a matter of minutes. Just because he has a male voice. Just one more reason my mother raised me to be able to stand up for myself.
So, yes, women have many generations and millions of examples of seemingly minor experiences, that have shaped their attitudes toward men. I don't deal with nearly as much as my mom had to, and my daughters deal with less than I have to. Progress is slow, but it's progress.
I guess one good thing has happened with this post. It has reminded me why I am happy I never married. Which would explain why I'm going to retire alone to a different state.
In defending the OP's anger, I apparently showed my fangs and am now a man-hater. Who knew?
ER was treated like garbage? Hardly. I believe my reply to ER's above post says it all.
Well if it says it "all" that's quite remarkable because it didn't really say anything of substance. It was clear you were angry; perhaps that is "all".
I guess one good thing has happened with this post. It has reminded me why I am happy I never married. Which would explain why I'm going to retire alone to a different state.
Having said that I would probably be wise to just stop right there and leave people wondering what I meant from their respective gender's approved, POV. But I won't.
All these pages of mostly gender-based rhetoric later, one major truth remains crystal clear. Men and women are different and for that I'm quite thankful. I'm one of the former and two marriages, three daughters, several daughters-in-law, granddaughters and stepdaughters, not to mention a mother, a couple of mothers-in-law, grandmothers, aunts, former girlfriends, females bosses, female employees, friends who happen to be female later, I won't even begin to pretend to understand women, nor am I sure I wish to. That would take half the fun and challenge out of it.
I have no idea why the original thread title was changed but think it perhaps an ill-considered decision on the part of someone who understands women even less than I pretend to and either respects them far less than I do, succumbed to political correctness or both. If the change was made because some supposed man complained then shame on him.
But having said that and in all fairness to the male of the species, I've also seen and been on the other side of the fence in which the male perspective was "welcome" only so long as it agreed with the female POV and the first time it didn't, watch out. It could and invariably would get ugly. As a consequence I'm quite in favor of a gender-specific thread now and then as long as it doesn't get out of hand - Mars vs. Venus and all that. At the same time, let's not lose sight of the reality that women strove mightily and appropriately to achieve "equality" with men in many venues and have had great success so now trying to distance and hold themselves apart in many respects is really ironic and counter-intuitive at best. Be careful what you wish for.
Horror of horrors, perhaps more men than people think have been and are faced with the dilemma of retiring and moving alone as well. But take heart. They'll likely die off more quickly.
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