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A lot of male strength got perceived as chauvinism or just plain wrong.
This power struggle for "equality" was something people bought into, instead of just being themselves.
Then you have the commercials with Progressive, that make adult men look spineless and immature. There are a lot of commercials and shows like this, where the father is not the head of the family, the wife just has to put up with this "guy" and the kids openly mock the father.
A man who is strong minded and has conviction is a rare thing these days. But it is a good thing, and the ones who are that way are treasures.
But where does the sense of entitlement come from, that's the question. I've seen what you describe in posts by a few people on this forum. That's a little scary, to think we're walking among guys who feel entitled to sex, and resent women for not complying with their expectations.
I think part of the problem in some cases is that there's no parental guidance in this sphere. Of course, a lot depends on the father's view, and not all fathers are enlightened on this topic. But parents need to work to instill some degree of humility in their boys, or just plain humanity.
I think that women don't really understand male sexual frustration because sex is pretty much always an option for them. For many men, it's not. It's understandable to become angry and resentful if you have a basic need that chronically unmet. However, obviously, that's not the fault of any particular woman or women in general. I have noticed that a lot of men with misogynist attitudes think that all women are "spoiled," "stuck up," "shallow," "slutty," etc. I think that they dehumanize women because they only focus on them as sexual objects.
I have seen some female posters who seem to hate men too because they are not getting what they want from them -- which is generally something a bit deeper than just sex.
1) I think westcobb is right, gender perception would change if sex became suddenly unobtainable for women and obtainable for men. It is the cat and mouse game with men and women and it does cause a lot of problems and animosity, however it is socially programmed. Trust me, if women weren't insecure from societies appearance standards and decency standards for them, they would be running around humping everyone. Society made women feel along time ago, they were "giving" something away that was irreplaceable to have sex with someone, obviously that mentality is sexually traumatizing for women...so they are more prudish with sex. Not to mention the fear of getting pregnant and left! Yikes!
Nebulous is also right, downplaying a mans strengths does not and should not make women stronger....BUT the same goes for what men have been doing for hundreds of years (downplaying women to feel stronger)
To Ruth Truth - - There are different levels of programming and misogyny . There are some outright (Adam Corolla) a-holes who say undeniable degradable things about women while trying to disguise it with humor. Then there are the great father, bad husband type of guy who watches porn all evening and makes fun of his wifes thighs in front of their children, but supports the family. The programmed male ego starts as early as infancy or being a toddler, watching your mom and dad interact or seeing Saturday morning commercials depict false stereotypes of the genders (boys play with tough trucks, girls play with weaker pretty things). By a man and wife merely displaying imbalances in front of their children they are creating misogyny (possibly). By a husband not being loyal to his wife, creates sons who deem women as sexual objects, who are not of equal emotions/sexuality as a man.
"Nice guys" are usually more mentally and emotionally stable, they are not trying to define their strengths by a womans weaknesses. Some men (like a percentage of people raised in bad example) can over come incorrect mentalities.
Also "liberal" men or media minded people will tend to be as chauvinist as they feel is socially acceptable at that time, always pushing the limits without seeming not modern. While men who are either not concerned with popular opinion or dont know about popular opinion will be more outright chauvinist. (Appearing like the burping, yelling , calendar hanging, porn addicted jerk)
The married guy who walks the lines of todays standards of Politcal correctness, yet makes comments about the hot 18 year old next door.... is a worse type of chauvinist to me than the guy who asks me to make him "a damn sandwich" . But thats just me!
There are many people who made alot of great comments and examples in this thread, add them all up and your got your answer
A lot of male strength got perceived as chauvinism or just plain wrong.
This power struggle for "equality" was something people bought into, instead of just being themselves.
Then you have the commercials with Progressive, that make adult men look spineless and immature. There are a lot of commercials and shows like this, where the father is not the head of the family, the wife just has to put up with this "guy" and the kids openly mock the father.
A man who is strong minded and has conviction is a rare thing these days. But it is a good thing, and the ones who are that way are treasures.
I don't really like those Progressive commercials, but not for that reason...I think Flo has run her course.
1) I think westcobb is right, gender perception would change if sex became suddenly unobtainable for women and obtainable for men. It is the cat and mouse game with men and women and it does cause a lot of problems and animosity, however it is socially programmed. Trust me, if women weren't insecure from societies appearance standards and decency standards for them, they would be running around humping everyone. Society made women feel along time ago, they were "giving" something away that was irreplaceable to have sex with someone, obviously that mentality is sexually traumatizing for women...so they are more prudish with sex. Not to mention the fear of getting pregnant and left! Yikes!
There are many people who made alot of great comments and examples in this thread, add them all up and your got your answer
I'm not sure that I believe that women would go around humping everyone if society were different. I think female sexuality can be a little more complex in ways that aren't acknowledged.
I think that women don't really understand male sexual frustration because sex is pretty much always an option for them. For many men, it's not. It's understandable to become angry and resentful if you have a basic need that chronically unmet. However, obviously, that's not the fault of any particular woman or women in general. I have noticed that a lot of men with misogynist attitudes think that all women are "spoiled," "stuck up," "shallow," "slutty," etc. I think that they dehumanize women because they only focus on them as sexual objects.
I have seen some female posters who seem to hate men too because they are not getting what they want from them -- which is generally something a bit deeper than just sex.
I don't really understand the "sex is always an option for them" comments. I went through some long periods of my life without a partner, short of going to a scuzzy bar back then I don't think there were all sorts of options out there for me.
A lot of male strength got perceived as chauvinism or just plain wrong.
This power struggle for "equality" was something people bought into, instead of just being themselves.
Then you have the commercials with Progressive, that make adult men look spineless and immature. There are a lot of commercials and shows like this, where the father is not the head of the family, the wife just has to put up with this "guy" and the kids openly mock the father.
A man who is strong minded and has conviction is a rare thing these days. But it is a good thing, and the ones who are that way are treasures.
I had meant to comment more on the idea of the commercials. While I don't love those commercials, I didn't like the commercials of the old days where you'd always have an authority figure of a white male either, or where a woman would say "My dentist/docotr recommends...." and the dentist would always be a man.
Chauvinism has been dead for a long time. In fact I don't think it ever existed. Patriarchy and Matriarchy are good things....How this oppression of men and woman got started was when a strong woman or a strong man stuck their nose in the business of those they considered weaker. Kind of like a rich Matriarch who gets a hobby that consists of protecting the little peasant girl from her brutish husband....or a Patriarch who acts as an interloper into the affairs of others in the hope of enhancing his prestige and power.
People should mind their own business and let nature take it's course. Back in the 50s my mother was a natural feminist- no one could hold her down or oppress her. She did not resent or hate men- My father made one tenth of the money she did and he was proud of his wife....having said that.
Woman hate does exist...it is based in envy and jealously on the part of weak males. Same can be said of woman who hate men- It's envy and jealousy. These states of mind boarder on insanity. You can envy someone for a million years and you will never be them. In order to bring about so-called equality between the sexes you have to use injustice to accomplish this- You will see this engineering under family law. A good man or woman who is strong is ganged up on and swarmed into submission all in the hope of granting power to a weaker counter part- These actions are artificial and have no lasting benefits.
Chauvinism has been dead for a long time. In fact I don't think it ever existed. Patriarchy and Matriarchy are good things....How this oppression of men and woman got started was when a strong woman or a strong man stuck their nose in the business of those they considered weaker. Kind of like a rich Matriarch who gets a hobby that consists of protecting the little peasant girl from her brutish husband....or a Patriarch who acts as an interloper into the affairs of others in the hope of enhancing his prestige and power.
People should mind their own business and let nature take it's course. Back in the 50s my mother was a natural feminist- no one could hold her down or oppress her. She did not resent or hate men- My father made one tenth of the money she did and he was proud of his wife....having said that.
Woman hate does exist...it is based in envy and jealously on the part of weak males. Same can be said of woman who hate men- It's envy and jealousy. These states of mind boarder on insanity. You can envy someone for a million years and you will never be them. In order to bring about so-called equality between the sexes you have to use injustice to accomplish this- You will see this engineering under family law. A good man or woman who is strong is ganged up on and swarmed into submission all in the hope of granting power to a weaker counter part- These actions are artificial and have no lasting benefits.
Sure chauvinism exists, and it is not dead.
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