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Ruth, you asked for the answer and it happens to be a lot to do with what I wrote. Women also contribute hugely to the problem by allowing the treatment. I did not say I agreed with it or thought it was functional, obviously misogyny is not a harmonious lifestyle. When a father has been taught by religion to "lead his household" and more or less own a woman as his child, he then teaches his son these same things. Even when the religion wears off many generations later, the cultural dysfunction does not. Men have been taught that dominating makes them more like a stereotypical "man" and they have sexual needs that a woman does not have. Men have also been taught that women are emotionally weak, this teaching alone would make a man lose respect for women. In actuality, women can be basketcases after living with fear of rejection from a man or being dominated into submission.
Yes, women have a lot to change as well. As in any dysfunctional relationship, there are two contributing parties. Women have made too many excuses for misogynist behavior or just grouched about but did not really stand up to stop it. Men and women both do not realize how programmed they really are.
For example my mother is a professional driver, she never let a man tell her she would never know how to park a car because she was female.
Last edited by MissesAnna; 06-18-2012 at 11:28 PM..
I think there are several good insights about misogny on this thread. Most of the responses are sociological though. Since it is a psychology forum, I'll try to poke it the problem from a psychological angle. Is it possible that misogny is caused by a frustrated libido? There is a certain kind of woman hater who basically just hates his own sexual impulses and inability to gratify them. He seems to think that sexual gratification is his right, and he walks around angry at women for not giving him what he is entitled to.
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Originally Posted by WestCobb
I think there are several good insights about misogny on this thread. Most of the responses are sociological though. Since it is a psychology forum, I'll try to poke it the problem from a psychological angle. Is it possible that misogny is caused by a frustrated libido? There is a certain kind of woman hater who basically just hates his own sexual impulses and inability to gratify them. He seems to think that sexual gratification is his right, and he walks around angry at women for not giving him what he is entitled to.
That could be part of it. Some 'women haters' end up raping a women, largely as a way to subdue/overpower them.
My first husband had a great Mom! She had lots of wonderful traits...But it was obvious that she never planned to let her one and only child (and son) grow-up all the way. She had hidden fears of abandonment...My husband developed a lot of passive-aggressive traits. He had a secret "ax to grind" with his Mom and all women. And he could be this way with everyone at times. (Friends, bosses, his sons etc.)...I tried to encourage him to declare his independence from his Mom. (Without throwing her totally away!)...But he always proclaimed that he "loved his Mom." And insisted that he had no problems with her at all...I had some "unfinished business" from my past that I was "dealing with" through the years. (My parents could be controlling at times too.)...I had to "free myself" from their "clutches" to become an adult and a separate individual in my own right...My first husband never went through this process. So he always remained suspicious of women. He passed-down his distrust of women to our sons. (In subtle ways.)...Later on I married another man who had more "positive views" about women. My sons had another male role model. But their Dad's unresolved issues with his Mom did have an effect on them.
Men controls it all regardless of what we think, including how women are viewed and how important or not we are supposed to be. their thoughts/views about women just get passed on from one male to the next, generation, etc. they control all of it.
Yes, women have a lot to change as well. As in any dysfunctional relationship, there are two contributing parties. Women have made too many excuses for misogynist behavior or just grouched about but did not really stand up to stop it. Men and women both do not realize how programmed they really are.
For example my mother is a professional driver, she never let a man tell her she would never know how to park a car because she was female.
Even after so much awareness-raising on these issues during the first decades of the women's movement? Is this somewhat of a regional issue, by which I mean did the ideas of the women's movement not make it into the heartland, or do you see it as more of an issue of programming being more difficult to overcome that anyone ever expected? A friend of mine said, by way of explanation, that "mothers let the boys rule the roost" at home. I'm thinking, "Really?? Why would they do THAT?!" Programming, I guess. It's all unconscious.
Thanks for clarifying your point. Thanks, also, to CArizona for a good post.
Is it possible that misogny is caused by a frustrated libido? There is a certain kind of woman hater who basically just hates his own sexual impulses and inability to gratify them. He seems to think that sexual gratification is his right, and he walks around angry at women for not giving him what he is entitled to.
But where does the sense of entitlement come from, that's the question. I've seen what you describe in posts by a few people on this forum. That's a little scary, to think we're walking among guys who feel entitled to sex, and resent women for not complying with their expectations.
I think part of the problem in some cases is that there's no parental guidance in this sphere. Of course, a lot depends on the father's view, and not all fathers are enlightened on this topic. But parents need to work to instill some degree of humility in their boys, or just plain humanity.
Ruth4Truth...Thanks for the kind words. And thanks for your great posts! (And everyone's interesting posts in this thread.)...Right after I married my "last" husband my older son acted a little "snippy" with me when I asked him (nicely) to do something...My husband sat down next to him and said: "C-- may be your mother but she's also my wife. And I'm not going to let anyone talk to my wife the way you just did."...My husband didn't scream or yell. He just stated how he honestly felt. My son's behavior towards me upset him...My son "got it." And he never forgot the incident and talked about it for years afterwards. He admired my husband for "sticking-up" for me!....My first husband was the total opposite. He tried to "undermine" me in every way possible. (And denied that he was doing it!)
I do not think it is only a heartland or regional issue at all (gender programming). Merely watch one of the many talk shows on TV, go see an "innocent" Adam Sandler movie, even a psychologist advice book is riddled with programming that is incorrect. I think certain regions and more conservative areas do have additional programming (usually religious related), however the continued excuse society as a whole give men regarding their sexuality, sexual needs, verbal incapability and emotional superiority.................Cause continued problems in even the most "liberated" regions. Women hear chauvinist comments their husbands make about the cheerleader or themselves or male sexuality and maybe roll their eyes but do not correct it properly, to set the proper example of right and wrong for their children. Someone said, "men feel entitled to sex", yes they do...sex with multiple partners, while married and with a playmate/model ! Just watch the commercials on TV to see how well embedded this programming is. THE MEDIA FUELS THIS CRAP. The most prevalent form of sexism today is no longer religion (atleast in America), no longer sexual harassment at work, but its literally through SEX itself in relationships! Men use womens body insecurities, as well as the media...to keep gender inequality going. Throw in some internet porn to leave a woman feeling inadequate and you have the recipe for chauvinism, inequality, gender imbalances and sexist mentalities.
Men and women obviously have different physical parts and hormones, but I believe when all is said and done, we are very much the same type of people, with the same expectations/needs/tendancies/sexual needs....
But no one can recognize this from so much deep rooted programming. I feel like women are far more emotional and needy than men, because they have bought the lie that they are. I also feel women are weaker because they feel they need a mans approval and at any time could be replaced based on their appearance or performance. All most all gender issues and inequality are a result of gender programming, not being born that way. If men felt the same pressure about being replaced or fear of being unattractive as much as women do,..... while their partners were deemed emotionally more stable with higher sexual needs/needs for multiple partners (even science bullcraps that theory), then MEN also would be insecure/over emotional messes, running from rejection/chasing approval. (as women have been stereotyped to do since the beginning of time).
Men have taught other men/their sons that being superior to a woman (stronger, more /unique sexual needs, not being loyal in a relationship, earning more, ect) is MANLY, so it would be embarrassing to not live up to "manhood", thats why it continues. Chauvinism has a lot to do with the programmed MALE EGO. Although if I were a man I would be turned off and hate women too....Because anyone willing to play the underdog is not sexy, anyone who whines and acts desperate will initially lose their partners respect, anyone who does not protect their own self respect will become bullied.
With An ego from hell , one develops a sick niche for using rejection, inferiority on someone, making them feel weaker, so the egotistical one can stay in control and dominate a relationship.
Men have been told by father figures, the media and even false science that they have needs and strengths superior to womens and that rejecting women/needing multiple women is "nature"...When in actuality that is a male lie that severely hurts BOTH sexes in finding honest relationships and equality. BOTH GENDERS want multiple partners before maturing, but it is not "scientific" to want to screw around on your wife with other women.
Women feel they need to have less expectations placed on them at work or financially and that a man should take care of them, because.........
1) they feel bought like property and they may get traded in for a younger model any way
2) They have to birth children and take care of them which gives them a body they fear will be unattractive
3) Through out history women have been persecuted
4) Even in Hollywood ....gender relations are still EXTREMELY OUT OF BALANCE, leaving women emotionally insecure wrecks who cant think about anything but dieting. As a result, they think the least a man can do is earn 20k more a year and pay for their damn dinner.
5) Men want to be dominate, so why should women not think men should show dominance financially?? Too many men want to rule their woman emotionally and then split the finances. Pfffhhhhh! Doesnt work that way! When you treat someone like a child, be expected to pay for them like a child. When you expect a woman to look like a "model", be expected to make money like a millionaire. It's a simple trade we have also been programmed with.
All this is only my viewpoint obviously, but Ive spent a lot of time thinking about this subject and I feel men and women both are cheated in this life by imbalanced and false thinking passed down unconsciously through the generations, it sneaks in on us in the most subtle ways, to leave horrific pollution in our relationships.
Last edited by MissesAnna; 06-20-2012 at 01:22 PM..
MissesAnna: but where does the programmed male ego come from? At what age does that seep in and from what source? And why don't smart mothers and caring fathers correct it? Not all boys grow up to be jerks, that's why the arrogant ones stand out. So I'm wondering, what's the difference in family background/experience between the nice guys and the arrogant ones?
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