What make Portland an "expensive" place to live? (Detroit: sales, apartments)

[DrexlerMcStyles]

Ive been finding this term thrown around in alot of the articles and forums Ive been finding online. So; what makes it expensive? From what I see restaurants seem to be (over) priced very similar to what we pay now in Albuquerque (which is where we are now). Energy costs are cheaper in Portland. There is no sales tax, though gasoline seems to be about 20 cents a gallon more than what we pay now...

I first want to stress a couple things: we have absolutely zero interest in buying a home. We are debt free; no credit cards, no car payments. So what will we find that makes the city expensive to live in?

[davefr]

Originally Posted by DrexlerMcStyles

Ive been finding this term thrown around in alot of the articles and forums Ive been finding online. So; what makes it expensive? From what I see restaurants seem to be (over) priced very similar to what we pay now in Albuquerque (which is where we are now). Energy costs are cheaper in Portland. There is no sales tax, though gasoline seems to be about 20 cents a gallon more than what we pay now...

I first want to stress a couple things: we have absolutely zero interest in buying a home. We are debt free; no credit cards, no car payments. So what will we find that makes the city expensive to live in?

Housing, property taxes, incomes taxes and most things that involve labor since we have a high minimum wage.

[jrkliny]

From the research I have done, I think most aspects of living in Portland are reasonable with many types of costs at or below the national average. One cost stands out - the cost of housing. This can be defended by the Portland fan club as reasonable considering the equally high or higher costs of Seattle and the staggeringly high costs in California. Unfortunately, the economy and salaries lag behind those areas so residents are making less money and housing is proportionally a big hit. The zoning/land use laws in Oregon are clearly major factors. Growth and suburban sprawl have been curtailed and have contributed to raising the cost of housing. In many areas of the country, zoning establishes minimum sized residential lots and controls the neighborhood density. That does not seem to be the case in Portland or other Oregon cities and towns. Very small residential lots have been subdivided and houses have been put up on plots that would not allow a garage in other parts of the country. I found many areas look really seedy because of the crowding. As a visitor, I really enjoyed the open spaces and especially the access to the ocean all up and down the coast. Still it seems that there needs to be some level of compromise which would allow for reasonable costs in adding housing growth.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

TAXES and FEES on everything you buy or do.
For example, I pay close to $4000.00 in property tax (on a modest house) for the privalige of living in Multnomah county.
My brother who lives in Colorado pays one third that, and our houses are valued pretty much the same.
Even though there is no sales tax, you still get your wallet drained by all kinds of hidden Oregon taxes.

[jrkliny]

Mike, can you be a bit more detailed on the taxes and fees? For many of us, a property tax bill of $4k/year seems very reasonable. What are some of the "hidden" taxes?

[DrexlerMcStyles]

As I said; Im not interested in owning a home or land. So Property tax is of no concern. Ive seen nice, old apartments in NE Portland in our price range ($750ish). So what are these attached fees? It sounds like the extra costs are mostly on homeowners. Is the State tax thats taken out of your paycheck much higher?

[philwithbeard]

Compared to Chicago / Detroit / Cleveland area, cost of meat and dairy products are higher in Portland. Maybe Portland isn't as close to huge feed lots like they have in upper mid-west. Dairy products only marginally more expensive, eggs are about 35 cents per doz higher. Real Butter, however, is slightly cheaper per pound if you wait for the sales.

Veggies are higher, but WOW do they taste better in Portland than in rust belt. Celery is one example. Back in Mid-West (a long way from the farms in California) celery is bland compared to Portland. To be blunt, I just will not pay the extortionist cost of organic veggies that they charge here in Portland; way too expensive.

All Purpose Flour is about 40 cents higher per 5 lb bag when on sale, a lot higher when not on sale. I have noticed that more bags of raw sugar are sold in Portland grocery stores than I am used to seeing back in rust belt. Of course, raw sugar which takes a lot less factory processing, cost more money!! (Go figure?)

Bakery made breads are somewhat bland, unless you go to an "artisan" bread shop and pay as much as $5.50 for a 1lb loaf of bread. Most "artisan" bread places sell basic bread for about $3.50 a loaf. Personal opinion: I don't think Portlanders are into the carbs that are naturally in yeast bread products. I don't see the grocery store bakery breads selling like they did back where I came from. Your choice: cost, taste, or carbs, yeast breads are slow movers.

Frozen foods seem higher also, but that is only an impression. Got to watch the sales adds when buying frozen diners. Deep discounts when on sale, otherwise $$. In rust belt, the difference between sale and not on sale was not as wide as I see it here (for frozen diners.)

Bottom line: you trips to grocery store will cost you more money in Portland than in some specific areas elsewhere in lower 48 states.

HTH

[jrkliny]

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed

You might want to try the Sperling cost of living calculator. It appears that housing and healthcare costs are considerably higher in Portland and most other costs, including food, are lower.

[John Shaft]

Housing is the #1 thing.
I'd say #2 is taxes. You hit the 9% income tax bracket pretty quickly. Contrary to what folks often counter-argue, 9% tax on all income is a lot higher than 8% sales tax on only SOME things you buy. That's basic math.
#3 is comparatively less pay compared to cost of living.
The trendy local/organic/etc food is definitely expensive but you don't actually have to buy it, so I don't really consider it - besides, that stuff is expensive anywhere.

By not owning a home, you will not encounter the biggest hit.

[DrexlerMcStyles]

Originally Posted by philwithbeard

Compared to Chicago / Detroit / Cleveland area, cost of meat and dairy products are higher in Portland. Maybe Portland isn't as close to huge feed lots like they have in upper mid-west. Dairy products only marginally more expensive, eggs are about 35 cents per doz higher. Real Butter, however, is slightly cheaper per pound if you wait for the sales.

Veggies are higher, but WOW do they taste better in Portland than in rust belt. Celery is one example. Back in Mid-West (a long way from the farms in California) celery is bland compared to Portland. To be blunt, I just will not pay the extortionist cost of organic veggies that they charge here in Portland; way too expensive.

All Purpose Flour is about 40 cents higher per 5 lb bag when on sale, a lot higher when not on sale. I have noticed that more bags of raw sugar are sold in Portland grocery stores than I am used to seeing back in rust belt. Of course, raw sugar which takes a lot less factory processing, cost more money!! (Go figure?)

Bakery made breads are somewhat bland, unless you go to an "artisan" bread shop and pay as much as $5.50 for a 1lb loaf of bread. Most "artisan" bread places sell basic bread for about $3.50 a loaf. Personal opinion: I don't think Portlanders are into the carbs that are naturally in yeast bread products. I don't see the grocery store bakery breads selling like they did back where I came from. Your choice: cost, taste, or carbs, yeast breads are slow movers.

Frozen foods seem higher also, but that is only an impression. Got to watch the sales adds when buying frozen diners. Deep discounts when on sale, otherwise $$. In rust belt, the difference between sale and not on sale was not as wide as I see it here (for frozen diners.)

Bottom line: you trips to grocery store will cost you more money in Portland than in some specific areas elsewhere in lower 48 states.

HTH

The thing is, we live in the middle of the desert (Albuquerque, NM) so prices for groceries here are the highest we've ever paid (for whatever reason). If Portland prices are similar to here then that is fine. I noticed there were quite a few co-op grocery stores in NE Portland and Im sure theyre just as overpriced as the ones we have here. We cook quite a bit and make most meals from scratch, as long as we can find a place that sells herbs and spices by weight we should be fine, I think