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The chart that YOU listed to on the CBO home page was a chart of PERCENTAGES..
No, because the CBO chart showed PERCENTAGES.. Not dollars.. if spending goes down, and income goes up, the PERCENTAGES change, but they do not create a surplus unless you spend less than your income. As you so nicely stated in your first paragraph, DOLLARS matter, not PERCENTAGES, which is why the CBO chart is worthless for the discussion.
The CBO does not contradict other charts.. The CBO shows PERCENTAGES while the Treasury Department shows ACTUAL DOLLARS. In one paragraph you discredit any "percentage" chart because you claim dollars matter, and then in the next, you keep supporting the validity of a chart which shows percentages. Which is it? You have no clue about my qualifications, so dont assume to speak for them.
Debt is ALWAYS a problem because debt creates future problems.. Have you ever compounded debt interest on anything in your life? I'm not blaming Clinton for his deficits, because all presidents have them, I'm simply disputing the fact that many believe deficits didnt exist in all 8 years of the Clinton Presidency.. Dont feel bad, its a common error, individuals look at a graph which shows percentage change and then believe this equates to dollars, but you yourself has admitted this isnt true. The CBO chart is meaningless for the conversation of debt, it does hold meaning in discussing cutting spending and increased revenue, but percentages of the GDP are meaningless in discussion of debt.
Bush created the bailout and then left 1/2 of it for Obama ($350B each).. It was Obama and Obama alone who took these "loans" and converted them into equity. We can debate if this was a positive or negative, but its a fact. On top of the $350B, Obama asked for and received an additional $787B. These are direct actions Obama took which had NOTHING to do with Bush.. Obamas biggest criticism comes into play by taking american dollars and buying up companies.
There isnt a dam thing conservatives could have done to stop Obama from doing such things. Conservative "complaining" is not a very valid excuse for incompetence and failure to take action..
Republicans had no need to cooperate.. Again, Democrats held EVERY branch of government, EVERY SINGLE ONE.. Are you able to comprehend this very simple fact that Republicans could stop NOTHING Democrats wanted to do? This is what makes you blaming Republicans laughable while you attempt to spin the Democratic failures into Republicans to blame..
You just don't read carefully enough, sorry. Of course the chart was in percentage, but it did not show GDP, as you claimed, it showed outlays and revenues as percentage of the GDP at the given time. So, say the GDP is 100 USD at a certain point in time and the outlay was 10% of GDP and the revenue was 20% of GDP. That means that there is a surplus of 10 USD.
What is the problem with the government investing in companies for a while? It doesn't do so for fun, but to keep your economy from collapsing. When the companies are back on their feet, they have to pay the money back, some banks already have, if I am not mistaken.
Even when Democrats were in charge alone, they could not do what they wanted. They had to consider the media (which is heavily influenced by clowns such as Limbaugh), half the population, angry protesters with rifles on their shoulders etc. Not to forget conservative Democrats, lobbyists and the like.
You just don't read carefully enough, sorry. Of course the chart was in percentage, but it did not show GDP, as you claimed, it showed outlays and revenues as percentage of the GDP at the given time.
I know.. I POINTED THIS OUT TO YOU..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
So, say the GDP is 100 USD at a certain point in time and the outlay was 10% of GDP and the revenue was 20% of revenue. That means that there is a surplus of 10 USD.
Wrong, because the chart shows BORROWED money from other budgets..
If the GDP is $100, and the outlays is 10% of the GPD, and the revenue was 20%, because I BORROWED 30% from the Social Security accounts, it means there is a deficit of $20. (- $10 spent + $20 income - $30 borrowed = -$20).. The $30 borrowed NEEDS TO BE PAID BACK.. just not during the period of time borrowed. All Clinton did was move liabilities to future presidents, (Bush and Obama being the ones)..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
What is the problem with the government investing in companies for a while? It doesn't do so for fun, but to keep your economy from collapsing. When the companies are back on their feet, they have to pay the money back, some banks already have, if I am not mistaken.
yes, some companies have paid them back but if you have to ask whats wrong with this, you wont understand the answer. BTW, where do I obtain this application to get government investment money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
Even when Democrats were in charge alone, they could not do what they wanted. They had to consider the media (which is heavily influenced by clowns such as Limbaugh), half the population, angry protesters with rifles on their shoulders etc. Not to forget conservative Democrats, lobbyists and the like.
oooh so now its the medias fault that Democrats didnt do what they thought was right.. Sorry but true leaders lead, they dont follow, and they sure in the hell dont follow the media.. They were elected for a reason..
oooh so now its the medias fault that Democrats didnt do what they thought was right.. Sorry but true leaders lead, they dont follow, and they sure in the hell dont follow the media.. They were elected for a reason..
There's something Obama hasnt been able to accomplish actually.
A year later, no change.... and now they're so afraid to have to speak on their own that for them, having to discuss the health care plans on television is "a trap!".
Wrong, because the chart shows BORROWED money from other budgets..
If the GDP is $100, and the outlays is 10% of the GPD, and the revenue was 20%, because I BORROWED 30% from the Social Security accounts, it means there is a deficit of $20. (- $10 spent + $20 income - $30 borrowed = -$20).. The $30 borrowed NEEDS TO BE PAID BACK.. just not during the period of time borrowed. All Clinton did was move liabilities to future presidents, (Bush and Obama being the ones)..
yes, some companies have paid them back but if you have to ask whats wrong with this, you wont understand the answer. BTW, where do I obtain this application to get government investment money?
oooh so now its the medias fault that Democrats didnt do what they thought was right.. Sorry but true leaders lead, they dont follow, and they sure in the hell dont follow the media.. They were elected for a reason..
Your own chart in comment #49 also shows a steady decline and eventually a negative deficit, which I take it is called surplus.
I quote you:
1. But percentages of a budget is NOT real dollars.. (#49)
2. The GDP is the gross domestic product which is measured in percentages by the BEA.. It is NOT measured in DOLLARS.. (#76)
I guess you were simply wrong there. The budget as well as GDP are multi-billion dollar amounts, and a percentage of a dollar amount is still a dollar amount.
So your saying "I know.. I POINTED THIS OUT TO YOU.. " is simply wrong. I guess it was the other way round
Nor do I think that your "borrowed money" plays a role here. If there was any borrowed money in the first place, it is present in all or no statistics, thus your country was still way better off under Clinton than under Bush. It is just a fairytale that Conservatives are more competent regarding economic matters. Their solution is the jungle book, which might have worked centuries ago when companies were still relatively small.
That is why an application for federal money won't help you much. You are not 'too big to fail'
Obama ran on a campaign of change. end of lobbiest? he hired them in his cabinet, he is attacking the supreme court, the unknown czars, constant spending, and the total disregard of the american people speaking out. He will have change and so will all the american people like it or not. during the election more people wanted to take part in a historical moment electing an african american to our highest office rather than looking at the condition of our country and electing the most responsible person to handle our problems. we can no longer bash bush since Obama retained the same people heading fannie mae and freddy mac, ben bernacki,ect. there was no change there, we as a country are still going down and obama and his administration, congress are putting their interest ahead of the country. His change is do as I say and don't talk back!!!! what a historic moment.....
Creating the most divisive, partisan atmosphere ever.
Attempting to tear this nation apart with his radical agenda and his pass-it-at-all-cost obamacare. No matter than he destroys the comity in the senate and will create in Congress the most toxic environment ever.
And of course, his greatest accomplishment: The resurgence of conservatives - he has united the base like no other.
I suppose once you are president you cannot escape the structures that have already been in place for a long time, no matter how much you dislike them and want to change them. The president is not a king who can impose his opinions, he has much less power than many people think. I don't know if that is good or bad. Probably both depending on the issue.
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