Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Just give the poor more subsidies. Problem solved. For example, talk out of both sides of your mouth when saying we need more oversight in mortgage underwriting, while simultaneously offering zero down loans through FHA ($8,000 tax credit equivalent is permitted to be applied at closing for down payment)
Yep, bandage up the exact same housing bubble with borrowed money from China and monopoly money from the NY Fed, reward people for being irresponsible by discounting mortgages and interest rates and punish those who would do the right thing by calling them red-lining racists who refuse to lend to minorities. In a couple years we can do it all over again.
LOL "monopoly money" I have been spending a little time on some UK forums to see how they are reacting to the UN's call to stop using the US dollar as the international standard. They call are fiat currency "Bernanke's magic paper" and "green toilet paper".
It really is difficult to respond to you because you seem to not grasp the situation. Do you really think that all the people who are calling for public option or, better yet, one-payer or national health care are all -- even mostly -- uninsured? Don't you get that many of these people do have insurance but hate the insurance run system of medical care we are forced into?
Yes, and many people do that if they can find a doctor who will take patients who don't have insurance.
Do you suffer from electronics envy or something? What is it with that?
So why aren't you will to pay a tax, which would probably be cheaper to you (and your employer if there is an employer involved), for health care for everyone? Why do you worship at the Church of Insurance Corporations? Think outside the insurance box.
85% of people with health insurance are generally satisfied with their plans.
Obama isn't coming up with a plan for the currently insured. The responsible kinds of people who pay every month, live with their deductibles, often choosing them, and the co-pays are not the problem.
I doubt any uninsured paying in cash have any trouble finding a doctor. The problem is with those who expect the doctor to provide his services and the services of his office staff at no charge.
And yes I have a problem with ME getting to pay for all those things that people who have money for new cars, cell phone service, the latest iPhone and all the rest but don't want to pay for their own health care.
As long as Obama doesn't touch those of us who already buy our own insurance, and comes up with a plan that gets the uninsured to pay something for what they want, I'm fine with his plan.
WOW do you know some strange people.
The uninsured I know fall into 3 categories.
#1. They have been laid off from jobs where they had insurance and have only been able to find very low paying jobs with no insurance or have been unable to find any job at all.
#2. Have a pre-existing condition and are unable to find any insurance company that will cover them.
#3. Are self-employed and in an age group where their premium for health insurance would take 50% of their income.
Easy to fix. Give the tax credit to the individual, allow competition over state lines, reform regulations for pre-existing conditions and policy termination, finally do tort reform and expand health care savings accounts. No public option is required.
85% of those with health insurance are satisfied with their coverage.
You know, I've been satisfied with my insurance but that doesn't mean I liked the system. And that doesn't mean that when there was a medical crisis, the insurance I thought I was satisfied with was as good as I thought it was. And that doesn't mean that I didn't worry about what would happen if I lost that insurance. And, finally, it doesn't mean that even when I thought my insurance was about as good as it got, that I didn't want health care -- not insurance -- for me and everyone.
You are using that statistic to mean something it doesn't.
So why aren't you will to pay a tax, which would probably be cheaper to you (and your employer if there is an employer involved), for health care for everyone? Why do you worship at the Church of Insurance Corporations? Think outside the insurance box.
I'll keep my insurance. With my insurance, I have some choice about the pool of users I wish to be in.
I can keep my monthly premiums lower if I choose a high deductible and higher co-pays. I have choices. I can choose more or less insurance, I can pick vision, dental, and even others. Or I can have a limited plan, have more money each month.
All I want is catastrophic medical care be covered. The rest I'll pay out of pocket -- that's what I end up doing all the time anyhow. I really don't want to pay for myself or for others to run to the doctor every time they sneeze.
85% of people with health insurance are generally satisfied with their plans.
I just responded to this from another poster but it's worth repeating:
You know, I've been satisfied with my insurance but that doesn't mean I liked the system. And that doesn't mean that when there was a medical crisis, the insurance I thought I was satisfied with was as good as I thought it was. And that doesn't mean that I didn't worry about what would happen if I lost that insurance. And, finally, it doesn't mean that even when I thought my insurance was about as good as it got, that I didn't want health care -- not insurance -- for me and everyone.
You are using that statistic to mean something it doesn't.
Quote:
Obama isn't coming up with a plan for the currently insured. The responsible kinds of people who pay every month, live with their deductibles, often choosing them, and the co-pays are not the problem.
I don't support any of the crap coming out of Washington. It's just redirecting our money into the insurance company coffers. Don't expect me to defend any of it.
Quote:
I doubt any uninsured paying in cash have any trouble finding a doctor. The problem is with those who expect the doctor to provide his services and the services of his office staff at no charge.
You are wrong. Where I have lived, you can't make an appointment with as a new patient with a general practitioner without insurance coverage. You can with some specialists if you have a reference from a place like an ER if you can pay for services in advance. There are some doctors who will refuse to continue to see and existing patient if the patient has lost his insurance. I'm sure that isn't true only for this area.
In most parts of the country there are very few, if any, doctors who will take new patients who have Medicaid. There had been one pediatrician in the county who accepted Medicaid. I think she retired.
Quote:
And yes I have a problem with ME getting to pay for all those things that people who have money for new cars, cell phone service, the latest iPhone and all the rest but don't want to pay for their own health care.
You live and die by that electronic envy obsession, don't you? No matter what anyone tries to explain to you...
Quote:
As long as Obama doesn't touch those of us who already buy our own insurance, and comes up with a plan that gets the uninsured to pay something for what they want, I'm fine with his plan.
You really love that expensive, narrow little insurance box you live in, don't you?
You live and die by that electronic envy obsession, don't you? No matter what anyone tries to explain to you...
Yes and I expect those people to stop envying me and trying to take my money. Life is all about choices. I choose to pay health insurance premiums and forego the iPhone with unlimited text messaging. They want the iPhone and for me to buy them health care.
Just have everyone pay their own way for the things they want.
Great.. you know someone... this is one of the WORST ways to defend an argument... telling people you "know" a person... for every example, there is a counter-example... in debates, you don't use "I know a person"..
When speaking to concrete thinkers you have to use concrete thinking.
Quote:
1) I am sorry if people don't read their contract coverage... Its so dang simple, I don't why people don't understand it... its not anybody's fault but their own but that's besides the point isn't it? I mean we are talking about whether its a tax or not but you are going off tangent...
Most people get their coverage through employers or are given very limited choices (often based simply on how much they can afford to pay). and have little if any say in what their coverage is.
And really, you and I might be able to understand what our insurance covers but not everyone able to.
Is it a tax or not? What does it matter accept to say "Obama lied" like they did when Bush said "Read my lips." Any politician who says he won't raise taxes while campagning is saying that with crossed fingers -- crossed fingers that mean "I hope, I hope, I hope" as well as the cross fingers that make a lie not a lie.
Quote:
2) You are delusional if you don't understand the word "CAN"... it doesn't meant that it "WILL"... If you don't have insurance, you don't get treated most of the time which means you have almost no chance of getting better... but again this is OFF TOPIC... it is NOT a tax... Tax doesn't vary depending what coverage you get... just like car insurance isn't a tax because it varies depending on what coverage you get...
There's one of the reasons our health care costs are so high: the unshaking belief that people can't get better without medical treatment.
Quote:
It is NOT a tax... get over it..
Get over what? I never addressed whether or not it was a tax (and as I stated above) don't give a $hit one way or the other.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
