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According to my father, may he rest in peace, during the Great Depression. In other words, people have been talking like this for a long time, and it hasn't happened yet.
According to my father, may he rest in peace, during the Great Depression. In other words, people have been talking like this for a long time, and it hasn't happened yet.
I know. While watching a special report a few days ago, when Social Security was first introduced, opponents of it were saying that the USA was headed for socialism. Seems to me that if a person has paid into something, be it Social Security, Medicare, a 401K, or a health care group plan, it isn't socialism to me. I always thought of socialism as the Government providing for it's citizens, without the greater population paying into it, in other words, FREE. But, someone here has already told me that what I think is wrong.
During a routine doctor visit recently, the nurse whom I saw before the doctor interviewed me for a end of life consultation. One of the questions asked was, if I were seriously ill, would I wish to be put on life support and keep me alive indefinitely? My answer was no. If I cannot walk, talk and breathe and carry on my daily activites, I don't see any reason why I would want to burden my insurance company, and the system, or others with trying to sustain life, if I were going to pass on without it (life support), to me, it just isn't logical to be a burden on society. I think alot of people have difficulty with trying to decide their end game plan.
I've thought that socialism in America began during the late 1800's, from what I've read.
For the most part, I would agree with the Great Depression as not just the beginning of American Socialism, but also a driving force behind the rapid shift towards Socialism in Europe. The Great Depression was not by any means the worst economic downturn in the West, take a look at some of the crisis' and crashes of the 1800s if you don't believe me (the crash at Vienna comes to mind..). The Great Depression was not as intense as it was widespread, which really signaled to people and governments that it was time to change their economic and social policies. Some countries took a more radical stance, for example, the rise of the Nazis in Germany, or the expansion of government power in the USSR. Other nations, such as France or England, took a more gradual approach towards largescale social programs, most of which were based on American systems, notably Social Security.
In the post-war United States, there was enormous economic growth, and the number of impoverished Americans dropped of dramatically. Because of this, most social programs that were on the docket suddenly lost priority. On the other hand, European nations, still devastated by the war that took place in their backyards saw an increasing need for programs such as universal healthcare, expanded social security, etc. All of which were funded by American loans (does this sound familiar?).
So to answer the question of when Socialism began in America.. The answer is most certainly 1929-1936.
[quote=Hombre57;10290553]Seems to me that if a person has paid into something, be it Social Security, Medicare, a 401K, or a health care group plan, it isn't socialism to me.[/quoce]
That is called collectivism, which is a key component of Socialism as well as Communism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57
I always thought of socialism as the Government providing for it's citizens, without the greater population paying into it, in other words, FREE.
C'est impossible. That money has to come from somewhere, TINSTAAFL.
Socialism is defined as collective ownership. American socialism began in 1935, with the enactment of FICA / Social Security.
How can one make an argument in one sentence and debunk it in the very next one? That takes... talent.
What does the U.S. government, and their by the people collectively own? Even in the case of GM the government while a majority shareholder doesn't "own" the company. Not one sector of American commerce is "owned" by the state/nation. The fact that you are required to contribute to a national social welfare program has absolutely no relationship to ownership of the "means of production" unless the Social Security Administration is producing senior citizens.
Socialism hasn't started. If you haven't been to a socialist country, you can't say we are socialist. People throwing that word around have no idea what it means. We are no where near socialism.
Socialism has been in force and effect since 1935. It may not have been fully implemented, lest it scare the sheeple.
But if you doubt it, consider this:
5th amendment states that private property SHALL NOT BE TAKEN for public use without just compensation.
Socialism abolishes private property rights.
Failure to pay your socialist taxes results in property confiscation without just compensation.
Either we're under socialism or the government ignores the fifth amendment. And if the constitution is ignored, we're under an evil tyranny. If socialism rules, we're under an evil tyranny... by consent.
According to my father, may he rest in peace, during the Great Depression. In other words, people have been talking like this for a long time, and it hasn't happened yet.
He was right - the birth year of America's socialism was 1935, via FICA / Socialist InSecurity.
[quote=Frankie117;10290681]For the most part, I would agree with the Great Depression as not just the beginning of American Socialism, but also a driving force behind the rapid shift towards Socialism in Europe. The Great Depression was not by any means the worst economic downturn in the West, take a look at some of the crisis' and crashes of the 1800s if you don't believe me (the crash at Vienna comes to mind..). The Great Depression was not as intense as it was widespread, which really signaled to people and governments that it was time to change their economic and social policies. Some countries took a more radical stance, for example, the rise of the Nazis in Germany, or the expansion of government power in the USSR. Other nations, such as France or England, took a more gradual approach towards largescale social programs, most of which were based on American systems, notably Social Security.
In the post-war United States, there was enormous economic growth, and the number of impoverished Americans dropped of dramatically. Because of this, most social programs that were on the docket suddenly lost priority. On the other hand, European nations, still devastated by the war that took place in their backyards saw an increasing need for programs such as universal healthcare, expanded social security, etc. All of which were funded by American loans (does this sound familiar?).
So to answer the question of when Socialism began in America.. The answer is most certainly 1929-1936.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57
Seems to me that if a person has paid into something, be it Social Security, Medicare, a 401K, or a health care group plan, it isn't socialism to me.[/quoce]
That is called collectivism, which is a key component of Socialism as well as Communism.
C'est impossible. That money has to come from somewhere, TINSTAAFL.
If what you're saying is really true, then, the USA has been a communist and socialist country for a very long time.
The money has to come from somewhere? Federal Income Taxes Collected?
Socialism has been in force and effect since 1935. It may not have been fully implemented, lest it scare the sheeple.
But if you doubt it, consider this:
5th amendment states that private property SHALL NOT BE TAKEN for public use without just compensation.
Socialism abolishes private property rights.
Failure to pay your socialist taxes results in property confiscation without just compensation.
Either we're under socialism or the government ignores the fifth amendment. And if the constitution is ignored, we're under an evil tyranny. If socialism rules, we're under an evil tyranny... by consent.
What nonsense. When something is confiscated for payment of debt, the liability is settled, and it is this settlement that becomes "just compensation."
Don't give up your day job.
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