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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.64%
No 257 50.69%
Unsure 49 9.66%
Voters: 507. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-13-2022, 09:38 AM
 
2,612 posts, read 945,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Suffer?

I thought the story was that it wouldn't make any difference. Putin didn't care and Russians were tough.

No?
No, it makes a difference to all of the individuals suffering. Putin is fine and the invasion continues so what was gained by making 140+ million people suffer?
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Old 06-13-2022, 09:39 AM
 
2,612 posts, read 945,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Since their "Big Win" is invading foreign countries and controlling Europe then, yeah. My big win is stopping them.
Russia has proven to the world that it cannot be trusted if affluent. The solution is to take away their power by impoverishing them.
No one thought the sanctions would stop this invasion. Everyone expects the sanctions to stop the NEXT invasion, though. Russia's days of being a bully are over, no matter how this conflict comes out.
You act as if this is a war perpetuated by all of Russia. How much say in this invasion do you think the average Russian citizen had/has?
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Old 06-13-2022, 09:40 AM
bu2
 
24,248 posts, read 15,084,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Well... kinda disagree with the "3rd world country" view of Russia. 3rd world countries cannot stand up to the US, which is certainly a first world country with the most powerful military in the world. Yet Russia for the last couple of decades has been successful with its military adventures in South Ossetia, Georgia, and Syria to name a few. And the US has been powerless to prevent them. Not so with Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan (well, until Biden's disgraceful and cowardly exit). Those are third world countries that the US could just roll over unimpeded. But not so with Russia who has a strong military. And nuclear weapons too. Third world countries don't have nukes.
3rd world really has to do with economy. Have you been to Russia?

As for your last sentence, ever heard of North Korea?
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Old 06-13-2022, 09:42 AM
bu2
 
24,248 posts, read 15,084,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
Looks like the Russia isn't the only one suffering from sanctions. Reports are coming out that 1/3rd of the U.S. inflation is direct result of the Ukraine conflict. I repeat you can't sanction a top energy producing nation in addition to sanctioning two other top 10 energy producing nations and expect nothing to happen. Gas has crossed $5 a gallon and is projected to rise further. No telling how high they are in Europe. Americans are getting unhappy meaning changes to the current political establishment are in order.
You are confusing two things.

War
Sanctions

If all Russian sanctions were removed, it wouldn't have any effect on US inflation.
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Old 06-13-2022, 09:44 AM
 
2,612 posts, read 945,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
You are confusing two things.

War
Sanctions

If all Russian sanctions were removed, it wouldn't have any effect on US inflation.
It is easy to try to say it is the war since it would be hard for someone to prove one way or the other. However, if Russian oil and gas and other products flowed freely, I would say the global economy would be in much better shape. The losses from Ukraine's economic activity (which probably would have been over a while ago without foreign intervention) would have been much more limited.
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Old 06-13-2022, 09:56 AM
bu2
 
24,248 posts, read 15,084,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
It is easy to try to say it is the war since it would be hard for someone to prove one way or the other. However, if Russian oil and gas and other products flowed freely, I would say the global economy would be in much better shape. The losses from Ukraine's economic activity (which probably would have been over a while ago without foreign intervention) would have been much more limited.
Ukraine produces a large % of certain grains.

Russia oil and gas haven't really been impeded yet, except that they have had to sell some oil at a discount.

The US just doesn't trade with Russia much. There's no significant impact here of the sanctions. Europe probably feels more of an impact.
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Old 06-13-2022, 09:58 AM
bu2
 
24,248 posts, read 15,084,412 times
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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...an-citizenship
This step sounds like Putin is suddenly getting nervous about the home front. Taking away citizenship for protesting?

"...Now, Makichyan, who was born in Armenia but has Russian citizenship, fears he may never be able to return home to Moscow.

On June 27, the question of Makichyan’s citizenship will be raised at a court hearing in Russia’s capital. While officials say he illegally obtained his citizenship, he along with other activists claim the case is politically motivated.

No stranger to being arrested, Makichyan, who had been inspired by the ideas of Swedish environmental activist Greta Thunberg, was detained at a climate protest deemed unlawful by authorities in 2019. He was also detained in January over a one-man picket against Russian intervention in Kazakhstan. And then on February 25, he and his wife were detained while leaving their house and fined for taking part in unauthorised rallies.

Protests are tightly restricted in Russia and demonstrators must seek the approval of authorities before holding an event.

Makichyan, now in his late 20s, has lived in Moscow most of his life and held Russian citizenship since he was 10 years old. He believes the government wants to strip him of his nationality not only for his outspoken position, but as a warning to other foreign-born dissidents.

“I was against this war, and I was against this war publicly, but I think this case is not about me,” Makichyan told Al Jazeera. “It’s about millions of people like Armenians and many, many other nationalities in Russia. The government warns them to be afraid, to be silent....""
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Old 06-13-2022, 09:58 AM
 
5,125 posts, read 2,802,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
3rd world really has to do with economy. Have you been to Russia?

As for your last sentence, ever heard of North Korea?
Economy? Certainly a factor. Russia is rich in natural resources and agricultural land as well as continually diversifying its industries. It is doing well economically. Certainly far behind the US. But then why is the US having all these problems with the Russians where they could just swat them away economically? But they can't.

The point is that the US is powerless to do anything to stop these Russian military adventures. Third world countries cannot stand up to the US. If the US had its way, Russia would have been destroyed decades ago both economically and militarily. Reminds me of the Road Runner cartoon where Russia is the road runner and the US is the wily coyote. The coyote tries and tries to outwit the road runner, but the road runner keeps getting away. For decades. Beep, beep!

North Korea a nuclear power? Who is struggling with their nukes that don't work properly? That is not a real nuclear power.
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Old 06-13-2022, 10:00 AM
bu2
 
24,248 posts, read 15,084,412 times
Reputation: 13116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Economy? Certainly a factor. Russia is rich in natural resources and agricultural land as well as continually diversifying its industries. It is doing well economically. Certainly far behind the US. But then why is the US having all these problems with the Russians where they could just swat them away economically? But they can't.

The point is that the US is powerless to do anything to stop these Russian military adventures. Third world countries cannot stand up to the US. If the US had its way, Russia would have been destroyed decades ago both economically and militarily. Reminds me of the Road Runner cartoon where Russia is the road runner and the US is the wily coyote. The coyote tries and tries to outwit the road runner, but the road runner keeps getting away. For decades. Beep, beep!

North Korea a nuclear power? Who is struggling with their nukes that don't work properly? That is not a real nuclear power.
You said 3rd world countries don't have nukes. You were wrong. So now you are changing what you said. Classic propaganda technique.
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Old 06-13-2022, 10:02 AM
 
1,907 posts, read 675,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Well... kinda disagree with the "3rd world country" view of Russia. 3rd world countries cannot stand up to the US, which is certainly a first world country with the most powerful military in the world. Yet Russia for the last couple of decades has been successful with its military adventures in South Ossetia, Georgia, and Syria to name a few. And the US has been powerless to prevent them. Not so with Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan (well, until Biden's disgraceful and cowardly exit). Those are third world countries that the US could just roll over unimpeded. But not so with Russia who has a strong military. And nuclear weapons too. Third world countries don't have nukes.
What make any country 'First' or 'Second' or 'Third' categorization have less to do with military capability and more with other items such as economy, standards of living, education, or science, and these are considered 'hard' measurements. The 'soft' issues are politics, judicial system, or the happiness index. No country is perfect in all measurements but they are generally recognizable as high or desirable or better for emulation by others.

For example...

Between the US and Sweden, if those are the ONLY choices, many would take Sweden instead of the US over the 'soft' issues. They would admire the US for having been to the Moon and many accomplishments in the 'hard' issues. But for personal and lifestyle, they would prefer Sweden. However, if the choices are the US, Sweden, and NKR, people would group the US and Sweden into one class where they would debate which to go, but for NKR, they would definitely reject.

Russia is not First and is one leg into Third.
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